2006 Honda Insight MT Build Thread

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Happy to bypass the internal rectifier if you want to buy a second one and send it to me. Mine basically never shut off, that I was aware.

Thanks for the offer! Right now I'm pretty happy with the way it runs, even with it turning off at ultra low RPM my 12V is still staying charged quite well, and if it becomes an issue all I need to do is keep my RPMs at 1000 or higher.

I may take you up on it this fall though and send you the one that's currently installed when I'm down in Virginia and not driving my car much if the offer still stands then.

I might try doing some practice solders on some other stuff to see if I can get soldering figured out and then maybe do it myself this summer too. Although neither my dad nor myself had any luck trying to solder on a connection to the DC-DC output. The flux just seemed to evaporate whenever the soldering iron touched it, instead of melting nicely. The iron we have isn't even an expensive one that should get that hot.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Got a little more done on the rear rebuild. Waiting for new meanwell fan to arrive so I can get the meanwell mounted in place before continuing working on the floor.



Lying down comfortably in the Insight. Not something you could do with the hybrid battery in place..

[Ecky]

Very clean! Nice job.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Just filled up today for the first time in 20 weeks. Records all around.

As you may have seen on the left, my pizza delivery fuel economy is logged separately for work reasons. Most of my driving is deliveries, where I am extremely limited on the amount of hypermiling I can do - half coast to stops rather than full coast, no AC, time lights, highest gear, lean burn, but that's about it. Speed limit or 5 above is pretty normal. I also can't run a tank dry as I want at least 2 gallons of gas in the car whenever I go to work.

Today's fill up was 782.6 miles on exactly 8.8 gallons, same gas station, first click as always. On this tank I did 644.3 miles of deliveries averaging 85.56 MPG. Subtracting that from the whole tank means that my 138.3 miles of non-delivery driving averaged 108.9 MPG, which is pretty close to my trip-by-trip estimate (My FCD has never been more than 2% off; it varies between 1% low and 2% high).

The whole tank was 88.93 MPG, which I think is pretty great considering over 80% of the miles were with very limited hypermiling. This constitutes a "full tank" record since all my other tanks have been brought down by pizza delivery, even though all of my non-delivery driving this summer since getting back from college is currently averaging around 100 MPG.

These little trips are getting better too. My drive to the gas station from work was a new record, 125.0 MPG, and my drive home from the gas station was 126.6 MPG. Neither have any real elevation change between destinations. Of course little trips don't make a huge difference on their own, but they add up when most of my driving outside deliveries is just those short trips.

I need an excuse to do on a highway trip and see how well the Insight performs. There is a noticeable fuel economy improvement when the outside temperature is 85 degrees versus even 70, so I'd like to see 100 mpg for a highway trip, but we'll see. So far I don't have any excuse for a highway trip though, so I can only wait. And, of course, randomly taking a highway trip just for FE numbers is against the ecomodding bible because it's wasting gas for no purpose.

-

Waiting on a fan to arrive, then going to get the meanwell put in it's final position and resume the rear rebuild.

Going with a dual fan setup - replacing the stock fan and adding a 92mm fan. Specs indicate double the airflow at half the current; we'll see.

[NoD~]

Nice! Definitely would like to see how you do in a trip. I'm pretty sure with my mods and driving, I could easily nail a 100+mpg trip if I wasn't rushed. (50mph the whole way, vs the usual 55-60 I end up going). So yeah, go visit Florida or something. You need a vacation anyways, right?

Which fans you going with? I did just a single I think 92mm Arctic Cooling on mine and it's been solid. In fact, since you mentioned load on one... with mine at 14.0v with the bypass mod, I can turn my fan on 4 with all my lights on and the foot on the brakes (and the radio playing on kind of low volume, no subwoofer amp cranked) and the voltage is just stable. Once I click my window down with this combo, it drops to about 13.5... so I've found the limits. I've actually ordered a 2nd Meanwell on ebay for cheap, gonna try running duals since I got some audio upgrades I'll be doing soon anyways.

Anywho, keep up the good work... or don't, you seem to be beating me in the MPG charts.

[Ecky]

Fantastic work! I do miss the astronomical economy numbers sometimes.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

I doubt I'd get any better than you did, and I might even get lower. Our mods and driving style seem to be fairly close. On my drive home from college I got 80.8 MPG going through the WV and VA mountains in 50 degree weather, and the next day it was high 60s/low 70s out and mostly flat, and I got 92.5 for that leg. That was back in May. 85 F vs 70 F outside temperature seems to be roughly 6%-8% improvement in fuel economy, but I suspect that weather has a larger effect around town than on the highway.

I'll have that same ~700 mile drive back down to college in about 5-6 weeks; hopefully the weather is nice and warm for that trip. I'd like to break over 90 MPG for the whole thing. 100 is a bit optimistic considering I have to deal with those mountains in WV and VA. The drive down seems to be just slightly more fuel efficient than the drive back home even though the net elevation change is around 30 meters IIRC over 700 miles.

I haven't had any issues with the meanwell other than at very low RPM, which I'm sure bypassing the rectifier would help. But even with 3 or 4 miles of no meanwell operation at 800 RPM driving the car still cranks and starts fine. I am planning on getting a deep cycle battery when this 12V goes, but this one is new as of last fall.

I got the same Arctic F9 for the 92mm, and ordered a Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX 60mm fan to replace the stock one. I figured since I need an adapter from 3 pins on the Arctic to the 2 pins on the meanwell, I might as well order a splitter and run both fans. I could just splice into the wires, but I'd rather keep everything reversible. It was a little more than the Arctic fan, but it seems to be one of the best rated 60mm fans out there. Their 92mm fan didn't have the good specs that the Arctic one did, and I couldn't find a 60mm fan made by Arctic.

Was it one of those same HRP-600-15s for $29.99 + $13 shipping? If so, that's the same one I got. Fast shipping and works great.

Regarding mpg, if I combine both pizza delivery and non-pizza delivery together I think you have me beat.

Originally Posted by Ecky

Fantastic work! I do miss the astronomical economy numbers sometimes.

...that is, until you put your foot down on your K-sight's gas pedal and feel the power, right? A k-swapped Insight would be too detrimental to my wallet; I'd probably lose all thoughts of economy if I had one and just spend all my time racing around and get maybe 25 mpg.

[California98Civic]

Looking good. Love this car.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Plugged in the two fans today to see how the airflow compared to the stock meanwell fan, and it was pathetic. Both fans together provide significantly less airflow than the stock fan. Only benefit is that they are virtually silent. But, since cooling is ultra important here, I will be returning the fans and retaining the stock fan for now.

Stock fan is 33.1 CFM @ 45 dbA, 6800 RPM, 60mm*60mm*25mm.

The two replacement fans were
- Arctic F9, 43 CFM @ 23.5 dbA, 1800 RPM, 92mm*92mm*25mm.
- Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX, 17.18 CFM @ 19.3 dbA, 3000 RPM, 60mm*60mm*25mm

I was expecting the Noctua to have less airflow, but the Arctic wasn't much better. If the Noctua's 17.18 CFM and the stock fan's 33.1 CFM are both accurate, I would rate the Arctic to be somewhere between 20 and 22 CFM.

Next up is to find a fan that has at least 40CFM with a noise rating of under 40 dbA in the 60mm*60mm*25mm size to replace the stock one. That is, if such a thing exists. From some brief researching most 40 CFM 60mm fans are over 45 dbA, and most <40 dbA 60mm fans are 30 CFM or less.

[Ecky]

Something to take into consideration, noise ratings on fans are not standardized at all and you generally can't even make meaningful comparisons between fans of the same manufacturer. Fans make a certain amount of noise just moving air, even if there's zero motor or bearing noise, and 21dba is a completely unrealisticly low noise rating.

Also, larger fans moving the same amount of air overall will be moving that air much more slowly, over a larger area. A 92mm fan will feel very slow in comparison to a 40mm fan pushing the same air because it's much less concentrated. You'll still get the same air moved over the components though.

The fans I chose were Panasonic FBA09A12V, rated for 40cfm. They have bearings which can tolerate being mounted horizontally and are quiet and reliable, a close relative of the IMA fan which came in the Insight.