2012 Vetter Fuel Economy Challenges

[cvetter]

Hi y'all. The bad news is that there will be no Vetter Challenge in the Northwest this year.
Sorry that this has been such a cliff hanger for you. It has been or me too. Plans for a NW Challenge are still on for next year. The Quail Challenge will be Friday morning, May 4. The Vetter Challenge at Mid Ohio July 20 is a go, too. We are making good progress in applying the final streamlining to Alan Smith's Ninja and my Helix. Chapter 58 is full of pics and details that only an Ecomodder could love.

[low&slow]

Craig, Sorry to hear about this. Thank you for all your hard work in organizing the Challenges. Hopefully the NW Challenge can come together next year so that the hypermilers living in that area can come out and ride with us.
See you soon in Carmel.

[Nerys]

a world event would be really tough. countries outside the US have relatively easy access to road legal vehicles that make ours look like dinosaurs or are crazy expensive here in the US but relatively "common" in europe for example.

now sure how they would account for these differences.

For example diesel (and SMALL diesels) are pretty common in europe compares to rare to impossible to get here in the US not to speak of crazy expensive :-)

[cvetter]

We are learning in the Craig Vetter Challenges that around 16 horsepower is all that is needed to travel 70 mph, into a 30 mph headwind, sitting upright and comfortable. Real streamlining makes this possible. If you need more horsepower, you will consume more fuel. Nobody in the world makes a street motorcycle or car powered by a 16 hp Diesel. This means that we all begin on a level playing field.

It is up to inventors like us to make these new vehicles. This would make it a great international contest. Craig Vetter

[Nerys]

sorry man thats just flat out not true. any idea what a 16hp diesel engine costs?

so far the cheapest I could find is about $1500 to $2000 for a used diesel generator and that's only 10hp. so your probably looking at $3000-$5000 and thats used.

brand new your looking at $3 grand for a NEW 10hp generator.

and the 1 in 1000 "hey I found one cheap" don't count :-)

I am not saying its not doable. just that its not "as easy" as people make it sound or you would see these driving all over the place.

I can buy a diesel "car" for less than these little diesel generators sell for :-) and I can't afford either :-)

diesel is a bit more common in europe so they have a bit more "access" to relatively affordable diesels that sell for 2 and 3 times as much here in the US.

[Frank Lee]

Craig never said it would be easy or cheap. And we all know that even if it were, people have to want something like that pretty bad before they go out and build it.

[Nerys]

I know but its just sad. their are so many people who DESIRE to do this kind of stuff but financially can not.

and its not like well its just expensive that is the way it is. There is no reason for this stuff to "BE" expensive except simple greed.

its just sad that its the way it works.

[3-Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Craig never said it would be easy or cheap. And we all know that even if it were, people have to want something like that pretty bad before they go out and build it.

And to add to what Frank said....

I'm looking forward to using my old crusty Honda VF500 for a sleek cruiser, ala Dan Gurney style.

Sure the engine is too big, and I'll admit that I *should* pick something else for a starter bike, but you know what? I get 75 mpg with it now, it has 120,000 miles on the clock, and any savings I get in mileage by changing the bike, are essentially *free* besides the labor. The bike is paid for many times over in fuel savings over even a typical small car.

I can't believe the coastability difference between my Honda Insight car, and the Honda motorcycle. There are hills that I can coast a good half mile in easily with the Insight due to it's smooth exterior, but the bike, I actually have to feed in a small amount of throttle to move down that same hill close to the same speed! It's just amazing how much more air drag the bike has for it's weight compared to the car!

Looking forward to improving the bike aero substantially.

Jim.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by cvetter

Nobody in the world makes a street motorcycle or car powered by a 16 hp Diesel.

Nor should they.
We've copied a good many American mistakes in Europe, don't you guys go copying our mistake with diesel engines.

As long as there's no adequate solution for particle matter and their sheer complexity, diesels are no longer a viable option.
We've been fooled with diesel particulate filters, and clean-diesel marketing, but it's getting clear these filters make matters worse (smaller particles being more harmful) instead of better !

In addition, today's diesels have gotten so complex that even the dealerships no longer understand them, and the costly engine accessories have a nasty habit of failing.

Forget the days of simple diesels that you could throw anything that burns at.
Forget biodiesel with today's DPF technology.

Sure I'm currently driving a new-ish downsized, DPF-equipped, Euro5 diesel , but he moment Hägar develops a costly defect or needs expensive maintenance, he's gone !
And I won't get another diesel.

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Nor should they.
We've copied a good many American mistakes in Europe, don't you guys go copying our mistake with diesel engines.

As long as there's no adequate solution for particle matter and their sheer complexity, diesels are no longer a viable option.
We've been fooled with diesel particulate filters, and clean-diesel marketing, but it's getting clear these filters make matters worse (smaller particles being more harmful) instead of better !

In addition, today's diesels have gotten so complex that even the dealerships no longer understand them, and the costly engine accessories have a nasty habit of failing.

Forget the days of simple diesels that you could throw anything that burns at.
Forget biodiesel with today's DPF technology.

Sure I'm currently driving a new-ish downsized, DPF-equipped, Euro5 diesel , but he moment Hägar develops a costly defect or needs expensive maintenance, he's gone !
And I won't get another diesel.

Wow.

In the states the pickups with the diesels REALLY went to hell from about 2005 to 2011.

There is some thought manufacturers are starting to figure it out finally, but no one is very convinced.