April 17, 2015 Watkins Glen Green Grand Prix

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by brucepick

What happened, exactly?
I think you said something about a fuse, after the GGP was done...

Anyway, based on 48.42 mpg in the 2014 GGP, I'm sure 50 is within reach for you. The event's calculations now include the hill climb and return to the pump, so it's a bit different from earlier years where our odometers got zeroed when entering the track. But I think you can surpass 50. And a bunch of Priuses/Prii/Priae.

I used over 11 gallons between the fill up before the GGP, and filling up before the event. So when I went to the GGP, I stopped at the place a few miles down the road. He put in 10.5. So, I should need at least .5, probably closer to 1 gallon. The pump clicked off at .215.

It didn't seem right, and he asked if that was all the way full, and I said I didn't think so- but there isn't much I can do at that point.

[changzuki]

The missing fuel probably went out your tailpipes at the hotel when you gave it a little "happy foot" - lol! (Actually - it sounded quite good - it calls to me!) If this year goes by as fast as last year we'll be cheering you on soon enough!
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Although I know where you're coming from, take solace in the fact the ecomodders were well represented and that manifested in the spreadsheet and at the awards banquet!
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Looking forward to your ongoing build!!
~CrazyJerry

[changzuki]

For those who've read this far, it's no surprise that the 2015 Green Grand Prix was full of surprises. One surprise that I didn't connect the dots on (until I got home) was the link between some of the excellent photos we get from the event - and ecomodder "Gasoline Fumes". I had the pleasure of meeting him this year and never made the connection but a huge "Thank you" to him for taking the time to get us all some great photos. I don't know about anyone else, but those photos are like non-ethanol high-test for me!!! (CrazyJerry thanks Gasoline Fumes )
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~CrazyJerry

[brucepick]

Originally Posted by UltArc

I used over 11 gallons between the fill up before the GGP, and filling up before the event. So when I went to the GGP, I stopped at the place a few miles down the road. He put in 10.5. So, I should need at least .5, probably closer to 1 gallon. The pump clicked off at .215.

It didn't seem right, and he asked if that was all the way full, and I said I didn't think so- but there isn't much I can do at that point.

Having spoken briefly with UltArc on Friday evening after the GGP, I have this take on his tale here.

UlyArc arrived in the Watkins Glen area following a road trip, with his gauge indicating he'd used over 11 gallons of fuel. He filled up near Watkins Glen, but not quite completely - because the GGP fill at the TOPS station was his next stop. UltArc got 10.5 gallons, when 11+ were needed to completely fill the tank. So, he still had room for at least .5 gallons at TOPS.

The GGP crew at TOPS ONLY only pumped 0.215 gallons for his car, when it needed between 0.5-1 gallon. So his tank was likely NOT full when he left TOPS, beginning the fuel economy competition.

After the track run, back at TOPS, UltArc got a proper fillup. All the fuel he should have gotten there in the morning, was pumped after the track run. So by this estimate, his refill at that point was 0.285 to 1 gallon, beyond what he actually used at the track.

I thought I had to spell it out here. Nobody else jumped in to clarify.

[brucepick]

I'm seriously considering recommending to Bob Gillespie, for next year's Green Grand Prix:

The fillups prior to the competition should be done by the drivers or their navigators. Fillups after the competition will be done by GGP staff or volunteers.

Fillup by competitors before the event ensures tanks will be properly filled. They can have a rule limiting a maximum of three clicks. Fillup after the event(s) - GGP crew cannot get an over-read because it was completely filled before. It will be the responsibility of the GGP crew to not under-fill afterwards. That is probably an easier requirement to fulfill.

I think this will help eliminate, or at least minimize, inaccurate fillups.

Thoughts or comments?

[sheepdog 44]

I'm unsure where any human fuel fill errors came in, so i can't comment. But i think they should chalk out a line at the pump that you have to put your front tires on. This would ensure a more consistent accurate fill.

I usually go by what my computer says for mileage. But i know some of you are really good at getting accurate pump fills. Those pointers would be nice.

Next year i'm going to volunteer to help with calculating fuel economy. They seem to be at a loss on calculating electric cars, and plugin hybrids. It's really a disservice for those drivers to not get a MPGE score. Especially when it's an easy formula to calculate. With some background info i could probably calculate all the cars carbon emissions as well. That might make for a good trophy, "Cleanest car."

[sheepdog 44]

Wouldn't it be better to have the same person fill up a car in the same way? Say i over fill into my evap emissions canister putting like 10.5 gallons in a tank rated at 10 gallons. When the GGP crew fill it to 3 clicks, they will have filled the tank to 10 gallons and i would have a half gallon advantage. The before fill and the after fill need to be topped up at the same level.

I may be required to stop at three clicks, but i could hold the gas pump half an inch higher getting an advantage. It might at least present the opportunity to cheat.

[brucepick]

Is it possible to fill fuel into an evap canister?? I thought it only could hold vapor. Someone chime in please?

I'm not talking about the Prius expandable bladder tanks. That's setting else entirely, and is covered by the GGP's policy of judging Priuses based on their digital display data.

[UltArc]

I'm a grumpy pants that it happened, but I do not personally blame anyone. I did prefer the old place- less of a hill. The ground kind of slopes down towards the Tops. I just hope I don't have to use that same pump, next year.

I wish the process was more uniform, but not changed much. Like he didn't use those tabs, he held it. Well...how in the world can he hold it at the exact same point? I always use the smallest tab, so the fill is the most accurate. Have all cars pull up at the same bumper point- like when we start the track time. But that's just me.

But Bruce was spot on, regarding the situation.

[brucepick]

I also am not blaming anyone here. People generally do their best to follow whatever procedure is requested. Exactly how carefully they will follow probably depends on their own level of personal investment in the event, and on how complex the request is.

I'm still interested in ways to improve fuel measurement for future years.

Can we get some more comments on the concern about overfilling fuel into the evap system? Is that possible? I mean, anything more than about .001 gallon?

Aside from that possibility I think my idea has a lot of merit. Drivers will have a built-in interest in filling completely before the competition. And I think volunteers can get behind filling fully afterwards. I think error avoidance is pretty much built in.