Aptera Reboot - Improved

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

And no one is offering any good or compelling reasons why solar cells should be wasted by putting them on a vehicle.

No one is offering any good or compelling reasons why not to either.

I could see them being beneficial to me for my driving circumstances even with all the limitations discussed.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Wikipedia says the Aptera gets 2.2 times the range per kwh compared to the leaf. My leaf gets between 3.3 and 4.5 miles per kwh. So best case scenario it just barely gets 10 miles per kwh some times in real world driving.
One of the original concepts was gas only, the one they actually could have made was supposed to get at least 70mpg. If they are going to make them now is the time. Gas is at all time record highs and the tone deaf, inept, brain rotted administration just canceled gulf of Mexico and Alaska oil lease sales for this year. So they are tripling down on stupid in an effort to force people to buy things like the Aptera. If they can't do it now they might as well give up already.

It seems the argument against Aptera is personal expectations weren't met. Double the mileage of other EV's is pretty good. "At least 70 mpg" is also pretty good. 40 miles of solar in a day in at least some sort of conditions is also pretty good. I don't get why those kind of things wouldn't be good enough.

And yes, Aptera may fail again. But that doesn't mean everyone should hate them with a passion or that they positively will fail.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

N
And yes, Aptera may fail again. But that doesn't mean everyone should hate them with a passion or that they positively will fail.

I like Aptera. My dislike is for all those in the Green Religion that are compelled to say how these cars are our salvation, yet almost none of the Believers will be purchasing these vehicles. Their hypocrisy is why a company like this believes they can be successful.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I like Aptera. My dislike is for all those in the Green Religion that are compelled to say how these cars are our salvation, yet almost none of the Believers will be purchasing these vehicles. Their hypocrisy is why a company like this believes they can be successful.

Very true. Or you get fanboys who do buy them but downplay all the flaws as with Tesla.

On the other hand, do you have to buy something in order to appreciate it's advantages?

I don't think EV's or solar cars or Aptera are the solution to my problems or the world'sproblems. But I like the concept and I like how the math does work out and I like the potential advantages.

What makes this thread so hard are the emotions. If everyone's mudslinging at one another how can you have a logical conversation about the technology? Things can have pros and cons. The naysayers see the cons and that's all they see. The fanboys see the pros and that's all they see.

And yes, personally I need a minivan right now more than I need a two-seater. But five years from now that could be the total opposite.

[redpoint5]

My specialty is identifying irrationality, with a side interest in making predictions about the future. The things I don't comment on are all well and good, because there's no point in stating something is good.

As Thomas Sowell says, "there are no solutions, only trade-offs". That's a mindset that considers not only what is gained, but what the various "costs" are.

The Aptera gains extreme efficiency, but notably at the cost of greatly reduced utility. There's other trade-offs as well.

I think it could be the perfect vehicle for some people. Whether or not those people purchase one remains to be seen.

I'm completely dispassionate (no emotion) on most of these topics. I'd like to see Aptera succeed, but if I had to make a bet, I wouldn't predict success. I'm skeptical that hub motors is a good choice, but then I'm not involved in the engineering discussions. I've outlined how solar is more gimmick than functional, though I'm completely dispassionate about if one likes or dislikes them, so long as their reasons are based in truth, something which is not en vogue these days.

[freebeard]

My specialty is identifying feigning irrationality, with a side interest in making predictions about the future.

I predict that another reverse tricycle manufacturer will evolve their Platform 1.x using the Tilting Motorworks patents, and leapfrog Aptera.

[oil pan 4]

I already destroyed the idea of putting solar panels on a vehicle and no one for it has given a y good reason for putting solar panels on a car other than virtue signaling.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

At least I'm intelligent enough to give a reason why it's stupid.
I'll give more reasons why putting solar panels on a car is totally idiotic, wasteful and not the least bit good or helpful to the environment.
I will channel my inner aerohead for this.
1 solar panels develop lower voltages, stepping up tens of volts to the hundreds of volts required to charge a EV battery will create huge losses.
2 any attempts to use more smaller cells in series to get a higher voltage means more connections, a more fragile setup easier to break, impossible to repair, even more expensive.
3 any attempts to make the panels bigger means not all of the cells will get sun, one blocked cell can cut panel power output in half.
4 anyone who lives in a sunny area where solar panels would be most effective is trying to park in the shade, such as my self. Hmm would I rather get in a 100'F car or a 170'F car?
5 easily damaged by hail and non repairable, just take the whole roof panel, hood, trunk lid what ever is covered with solar cells, chuck it in the trash and replace with a new one.
6, waste of resources, will cost thousands of dollars, maybe generate hundreds of dollars worth of power in its life time.
Waste of valuable resource, solar panels laying flat like in a car roof will run at about 2/3 of peak power compared to being angled towards the sun.
7, stupid wasteful application. The average vehicle in the US lasts 11 years, a typical roof top solar panel will last 25 to 30 years. Only an idiot would use a solar panel for half it's life then crush it and throw it away.
8 only people from new England or the Pacific nw who barely see the sun will think this is a good idea as they have no clue what high production solar intensity looks like.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I already destroyed the idea of putting solar panels on a vehicle and no one for it has given a y good reason for putting solar panels on a car other than virtue signaling.

1 applies to all solar panels,
2 applies to all solar panels,
3 makes no sense,
4 doesn't take into account that 1 a lot of people have to park in the sun anyway daily and 2 that there are places that are sunny and cold,
5 applies to all solar panels unless it's a diy panel that you can desolder the PV cells and replace,
6 and 7, applying this reasoning you might as well as not own any vehicle that "costs thousands of dollars" or anything you won't use to it's fullest potential.
8 is prejudice and a stereotype.

[Isaac Zachary]

The reasons for having them have already been mentioned, but I'll mention them again.

• High electric rates. If at around 10 cents a kWh it takes 15 years to hit a payback period, then at 20 cents it will take 10 years, and at 30 cents only five. If you keep the car longer than 5 years in an area like that it could cost less with the solar panels than without.
• Lack of personal EVSE. Not everyone can have one installed where they live, and those that can may have to spend anywhere up to $2,000 or even more to have it done. Granted, a $1,500 panel on the top of the car isn't going to replace going to a public charging station from time to time for most people, but it could help reduce having to do that, maybe even significantly.
• It can work. Sail boats work. Bicycle pedals work. DIY veggie oil fuel in a diesel works. Sure, there are lots of disadvantages to each of those. Don't expect to be able to daily drive a sailboat for a commuter to college or pedal your bicycle to Hawaii or drive on veggie oil in the winter. Although few and far between, people have been putting solar panels on EV's for decades; and many of those with realistic expectations have been satisfied with the results. Even if Aptera flops like they did last time and no one gets a solar powered Aptera, other people will be putting solar panels on top of other EVs and will be perfectly happy getting a few miles here and there from sunlight.

[freebeard]

8 only people from new England or the Pacific nw who barely see the sun will think this is a good idea as they have no clue what high production solar intensity looks like.

They have a smoke season in New England also?

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I already destroyed the idea of putting solar panels on a vehicle and no one for it has given a y good reason for putting solar panels on a car other than virtue signaling.

How do you destroy an idea? Asking for a friend.

I have shared with Arcimoto a concept for a trackable solar panel system based on two 3-axis hubs articulated like Dragonfly wings.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

How do you destroy an idea? Asking for a friend.

Do not embody it.

Once the idea is no longer thought by anyone, it's dead.