Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Motorcycles / Scooters
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2021, 06:57 PM   #941 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,582

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,307
Thanked 3,629 Times in 2,715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
In either case a computer can and does modulate faster than a human.

Also rear power slides are pretty easy to save. Locking the front wheel isnít so easy to save Lock the front wheel while leaned over and it is all over for mortals.
Rear slides are way more common because that's the only wheel with power. Often they are recoverable, but occasionally they recover catastrophically (high-side). Losing the front is hardly ever a problem because braking is done prior to turn apex, and the speed is locked in at that point. You're either within the performance envelope and not crashing, or no amount of ABS can salvage the turn.

In a straight line, I can't lock my front wheel without going over the handlebars unless I'm on a very large banana peel. In a corner, I shouldn't be touching the front brake.

Rear brakes are nearly useless and not so catastrophic to lock up.

I simply have very little use for ABS on a motorcycle. It may help in certain situations, but traction control is more valuable in my opinion, and easier to implement since all of the requisite elements are already in place (throttle by wire and wheel speed sensing).

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-05-2021, 07:23 PM   #942 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,839
Thanks: 5,834
Thanked 6,806 Times in 5,504 Posts
I found a 17mm socket and breakover bar, but it will need a deep socket.
__________________
.
"Never trust an actor with a gun"
Abraham Lincoln (probably)

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 07:38 PM   #943 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,582

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,307
Thanked 3,629 Times in 2,715 Posts
Bring 'er over. Extra space in the garage, and I've finally mostly organized the tools.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 08:01 PM   #944 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Rear slides are way more common because that's the only wheel with power. Often they are recoverable, but occasionally they recover catastrophically (high-side). Losing the front is hardly ever a problem because braking is done prior to turn apex, and the speed is locked in at that point. You're either within the performance envelope and not crashing, or no amount of ABS can salvage the turn.
Yes, high-sides aren't fun - I've totaled a bike that way.

Braking should be done on corner entry prior to the apex and it normally is. However, sometime people misjudge the corner and what was a continuous radius turn turns into a decreasing radius turn and a bit more braking is needed. It is nice to have some computerized help to get the mix of braking and corner grip right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
In a straight line, I can't lock my front wheel without going over the handlebars unless I'm on a very large banana peel. In a corner, I shouldn't be touching the front brake.
All well and good when the pavement is clean and dry. In the real world with rain, oil slicks, puddles, gravel, mud, manhole covers, painted lines, etc - grip can vary quite a bit. I know from personal experience it is very possible to lock a wheel on a small patch of gravel and be on the ground in a blink of the eye - even braking in a straight line.

Yes, on a sportbike like yours you would likely be over the handlebars before locking the wheel in a straight line on clean dry pavement. My ZX-7RR would lift the rear wheel under hard braking. Other styles of bikes will lock a wheel well before doing a stoppie.

ABS is also a great training tool. It give riders the confidence to practice braking harder and harder and actually see what their bike can do without the fear of locking the wheels and crashing.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (04-05-2021)
Old 04-05-2021, 08:20 PM   #945 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,582

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,307
Thanked 3,629 Times in 2,715 Posts
I used to haul stuff in grocery bags on my motorcycle by looping the handles over the helmet holder. The stuff would just hang off the side of the bike. One day I bought oil and a filter for the bike and was hauling it home as I usually do. From a stop, I took a left turn and the bike spun 180 degrees and spat me out on the street. The grocery bag had hung near the rear wheel, which rubbed a small slit in the oil container and coated the left edge of the tire. Wish I had traction control then, and the other few times where I did dumb things involving too much throttle for the available traction.

I'd take ABS on a touring bike or anything likely to slide before allowing a stoppie. I'd take a slipper clutch over ABS on my sport bike.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 08:29 PM   #946 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I'd take ABS on a touring bike or anything likely to slide before allowing a stoppie. I'd take a slipper clutch over ABS on my sport bike.
I'd take all of the above. My BMW only has ABS but I've rented bikes with the full monty and they are something else.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 08:47 PM   #947 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,390
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,255 Times in 1,114 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
One thing that is dumb is the tire pressure monitoring system requirements.
IIRC it started after those problems with Firestone tires in the Ford Explorer.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
JSH (04-06-2021)
Old 04-05-2021, 09:20 PM   #948 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 339

Lord Vader - '15 BMW i3 REx
90 day: 35.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 72
Thanked 152 Times in 112 Posts
I think it makes sense to parse out the 3-wheeler here however. A lockup on the front is not going to be catastrophic, and they are similar to a 4-wheeler with respect to rear lockup.

Getting back to what I said earlier, there is an issue of what ABS can do and what it really does in practice due to cost cutting measures. I.e., the ABS on my i3 is just ****ing awful. Straight line braking, it works great, but in a corner it is deplorable.

There are 3 and 4 channel ABS systems that don't have that behavior, but BMW used a 2-channel split, which is a hamstrung half-measure.

That said, ABS on the FUV could just as easily be the same configuration as a bike and be moderately decent performing. Though there would still be an issue of the inside wheel lift that would cycle the pump and simultaneously cut the braking on the outside front. So in my mind, if it is not 3-channel, I don't want it. It doesn't help me and would just add cost, weight, and complexity for virtually no gain.
__________________
2015 BMW i3 REx
2011 Ford Flex SEL AWD
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 10:50 PM   #949 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 2,433

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 178
Thanked 1,319 Times in 914 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snax View Post
I think it makes sense to parse out the 3-wheeler here however. A lockup on the front is not going to be catastrophic, and they are similar to a 4-wheeler with respect to rear lockup.

Getting back to what I said earlier, there is an issue of what ABS can do and what it really does in practice due to cost cutting measures. I.e., the ABS on my i3 is just ****ing awful. Straight line braking, it works great, but in a corner it is deplorable.

There are 3 and 4 channel ABS systems that don't have that behavior, but BMW used a 2-channel split, which is a hamstrung half-measure.

That said, ABS on the FUV could just as easily be the same configuration as a bike and be moderately decent performing. Though there would still be an issue of the inside wheel lift that would cycle the pump and simultaneously cut the braking on the outside front. So in my mind, if it is not 3-channel, I don't want it. It doesn't help me and would just add cost, weight, and complexity for virtually no gain.
How does BMW meet the federal mandate for stability control that brakes individual wheels with only 2 channel ABS? Can they split regen side to side?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2021, 11:21 PM   #950 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,839
Thanks: 5,834
Thanked 6,806 Times in 5,504 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Snax
That said, ABS on the FUV could just as easily be the same configuration as a bike and be moderately decent performing.
Talking about Arcimoto in an Arcimoto thread? Their plans are for full autonomy.

Torque vectoring is in the roadmap but hasn't been implemented as of yet.

__________________
.
"Never trust an actor with a gun"
Abraham Lincoln (probably)

____________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
Snax (04-06-2021)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com