Arcimoto, the real thing? ($12k tandem EV trike, 70/130 mi. range)

[Hersbird]

One thing that is dumb is the tire pressure monitoring system requirements. Then speaking of ABS, I learned yesterday Honda has found a way to game the TPMS requirement by using the wheel speed sensors instead. I was looking at a new wheel and tire package for my sister's 2016 CRV and couldn't figure out why there were no TPMS sensors available. It doesn't use them. So sometimes grouping some of these regulations could save money and I hope more makers go the route of ditching the in wheel TPMS.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

One thing that is dumb is the tire pressure monitoring system requirements. Then speaking of ABS, I learned yesterday Honda has found a way to game the TPMS requirement by using the wheel speed sensors instead. I was looking at a new wheel and tire package for my sister's 2016 CRV and couldn't figure out why there were no TPMS sensors available. It doesn't use them. So sometimes grouping some of these regulations could save money and I hope more makers go the route of ditching the in wheel TPMS.

It isn't gaming the system - wheel speed sensors are sensitive enough that they will pick up a tire losing diameter due to deflation.

My VW Sportwagen does the same thing. It is nice that I don't have to buy another set of TPMS sensors for my winter wheels and tires but not nearly as useful as one with sensors that will give me individual tire pressures.

[Piotrsko]

Yup when the stupid tire low light goes on you have to stop and check all 4 to see which one lost a pound or if you really have a problem

[Grant-53]

March 2021 issue of Autonomous Vehicle Engineering from SAE has the lead article "ADAS for Motorcycles". Automatic braking must not launch the rider over the handlebars as the article points out. Nobody wants to talk about inertial reel lap belts but they may be needed someday on motorcycles and e-bikes. Bodywork that reflects radar better will also be considered.

[redpoint5]

The point of riding a motorcycle is to be in control. I'd never want automatic braking because the riders body position makes such a huge impact on how the vehicle performs. I can't even think of a scenario where I wouldn't be paying attention and need the bike to brake for me. I suppose some people have GPS nav they glance at... I've just never gone on a trip so long that I needed it.

[Xist]

No Iron Butt for you?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

No Iron Butt for you?

I ride a CBR600, which isn't very suitable as a touring bike. The furthest I've gone was a camping trip (dad brought the gear in a truck). It was a 5 hour ride, and the directions were easy enough to memorize.

I'd like to get a touring bike at some point and would likely utilize GPS when I'm in unfamiliar territory. Still don't know why I'd want my bike to brake uncommanded. Also don't care for ABS, but maybe some sort of traction control could increase safety. I can't react to loss of traction as quickly as a machine can.

[Xist]

Many people think that computerization is always better. Several people have told me that autotragics shift more intelligently than I do.

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'd like to get a touring bike at some point and would likely utilize GPS when I'm in unfamiliar territory. Still don't know why I'd want my bike to brake uncommanded. Also don't care for ABS, but maybe some sort of traction control could increase safety. I can't react to loss of traction as quickly as a machine can.

The place for autobraking is the same on a motorcycle as on a car - when the driver / rider isn't paying attention for some reason.

I find your stance on ABS vs traction control odd. You admit that you can't react as quickly to a loss of traction under power as a the computer but don't see the same benefit for a loss of traction under braking? Either way the machine is always watching for slip and can modulate faster than a human.

Just adding up my street crashes from 25 years and more than 100K miles of riding. 3 crashes that could be easily prevented by ABS, 1 crash that could have easily been prevented by traction control, 1 crash that couldn't be prevented by either.

This is my go-to test for ABS vs non-ABS. A bit old but ABS system have only gotten better.

If you want to skip to the results:
Non ABS 1: 92 meters (BMW Touring Rider)
Non ABS 2: 59 meters (British Superstock racer)
Non ABS 3: 66 meters (MCN tester)
ABS: 75 meter (BMW Touring Rider) - 17 meters
ABS: 42 meters (British Superstock racer) - 15 meters
ABS: 61 meters (MCN Tester) - 5 meters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO...rcyclenews.com

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

Many people think that computerization is always better. Several people have told me that autotragics shift more intelligently than I do.

What automatics can't do is anticipate the next action. How would it know to downshift in anticipation for a corner, for instance? How does it know to downshift in preparation for passing another vehicle?

Originally Posted by JSH

The place for autobraking is the same on a motorcycle as on a car - when the driver / rider isn't paying attention for some reason.

I find your stance on ABS vs traction control odd. You admit that you can't react as quickly to a loss of traction under power as a the computer but don't see the same benefit for a loss of traction under braking? Either way the machine is always watching for slip and can modulate faster than a human.

Just adding up my street crashes from 25 years and more than 100K miles of riding. 3 crashes that could be easily prevented by ABS, 1 crash that could have easily been prevented by traction control, 1 crash that couldn't be prevented by either.

This is my go-to test for ABS vs non-ABS. A bit old but ABS system have only gotten better.

If you want to skip to the results:
Non ABS 1: 92 meters (BMW Touring Rider)
Non ABS 2: 59 meters (British Superstock racer)
Non ABS 3: 66 meters (MCN tester)
ABS: 75 meter (BMW Touring Rider) - 17 meters
ABS: 42 meters (British Superstock racer) - 15 meters
ABS: 61 meters (MCN Tester) - 5 meters

There's far less opportunity for distraction on a motorcycle because one can't fidget with their phone, get distracted by yelling kids, watch a movie on a screen, etc, etc. I won't even have a phone call with people while on the bike because riding takes too much concentration to give the person on the other end of the line the attention they should be getting. I also won't have more than 1 beer and ride.

Because people don't see bikes, it demands a higher level of awareness. If everyone started off riding motorcycles their car driving habits would be much better. Assume nobody sees you, continuously plan escape routes, keep your eyes on the road, look where you want to go, not 15ft ahead...

I'm not interested in ABS, but I wouldn't be opposed to it being equipped on my bike.

That test is bogus, or the riders aren't experienced. I can flip my bike over the front handlebars braking in the wet before it would lose traction. I've done a track day in the wet before (the only time I didn't wreck). The problem I had wasn't in braking, but accelerating out of a turn and the back end getting squirrely.

One of my wrecks may have been prevented by ABS... it was among my first laps on a track, and the instructor wanted to slow me down so he got ahead of me and then braked coming out of a turn where we are rolling onto the throttle. I grabbed too much front brake and it washed out. All of my other wrecks have been low-sides due to loss of rear wheel traction. (except one was caused from my muffler striking the corner curbing on the track, and another one was catching air on a bump and the suspension not being settled as I entered the corner).

Perhaps technology has improved, but early iterations of ABS could not stop a vehicle quicker, it merely preserved directional control. I don't know if it's now capable of stopping quicker too. I could see PWM frequency being fast enough and sensor feedback precise enough to maximize available traction...