Auto X-Prize sucks! - Page 2 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

SuperTrooper · 10-18-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Seems unworkable, except perhaps for urbanites. How would you get to the garage to get the particular vehicle you need?

You would always have some type of vehicle in your posession, so you would just drive there. In this model dealerships, as we know them, morph into vehicle "hubs" resembling something more like rental agencies. Indeed, car rental agencies will probably merge into dealerships as your ownership share will be "portable" as you travel. The system would environmentally adventageous since you would drive a small EV to work during the week, then pick up a tow vehicle for your camper on the weekend, rather than driving the tow vehicle all week. At vacation time you use a minivan for the trip to Grandma's. It's a remarkably practical system. You just have to open your mind to a different concept of "ownership".

Unheard · 10-18-2008, 07:43 PM

If you want a car to cruse well at 70 you design it so it will be able to curse at 80 90 or 100 without a problem. The fact is 100mph is not that fast no one would want a car that only did 70 it would be dangerous to have a car that could not exceed a speed limit. Many times i have been driving at the speed limit and needed extra power just to get out of the way of danger. You basically design a car so it will have head room over what you require. If you car would only do 70 on the flat it would cause problems when you needed to go up hills at the same speed or if the head wind was strong.

If you set bar high it makes for better design in the first place. What is the point in replacing cars with something much less that we have now. People require a standard and they are not going to go back unless they have no other option

bennelson · 10-19-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unheard

it would be dangerous to have a car that could not exceed a speed limit.

How many places have a 90 mph speed limit?
How good is your excelleration when you are going that fast anyways?

I do agree that a high bar does call for more change.

I think mostly the super high speed AND super high range requirement do seem to be at odds with each other.

Unheard · 10-20-2008, 08:23 PM

To be fair i have never driven in the States so i cant comment on the dynamics of
driving on your roads. Over here the national speed limit is 70mph most free flowing motorways the traffic is flowing at 80 if not faster on some roads at certain times. if all the traffic is flowing well then your not going to be pulled over for doing that speed. Its a case of reading the traffic particular road and not driving like a maniac but to be fair i drive at close to 100mph quite a bit on some road mainly when traveling on motorways at night but for most cars at that time as long as the road does not have speed traps its nothing unusual and you always see cars going even faster than you are I would say cars pass me at 120 quite often on certain roads at night.

I will give you a sinario that seems to happen all to often when i am driving. You get 2
HGVs traveling side by side on a 3 lane motor way. They should not really do that but for what ever reason they do. now they are at a limit of 60mph but you have a car traveling at 80 in the offside lane. so i may be traveling at 70mph and fast approaching the HGV is the second lane. I either have to put my brakes on and slow to match the speed and trail behind it until the overtaking lane is clear for some way back or i see my optionally before i get too close put my foot down and overtake. Not the car that is fast approaching is doing 80 but i don't know that for sure so to be safe i need to know that i can get up to nearer to 90 without a problem. i also want to be beside the HGV for as little time as i can. I know my car will excelerate hard till 115mph and top out at 120 so that maneuver is quite safe for me to do.

If it is not an HGV then its is usually someone that does not understand that you don't have a slow lane and fast lane just overtaking lanes. You get people sitting at 50mph in the centre lane when the rest of the traffic is flowing at about 70-80 in that particular lane but they do not drop into the outside lane to allow the rest of the traffic to overtake.

I would never go on a motorway with a car that could not top at least 100. You need acceleration in excess of what others are cursing at and if they happen to be going faster than i expect i need the power to account for that. When traveling at speeds its safer to speed up and get out of harms way than it is to slam on your brakes and cause a potential accident behind you with a ripple effect.

If all cars that could exceed the speed limit were replaced with a new technology that could exceed that then it really would not be an issue. Everyone would be in the same boat but that would never happen and I don't think people want to travel at 70mph it seems incredibly slow in a modern car. I cant say i know one person that sticks to the limit all the time.

If we are talking about potential cars for a world market then 100 does not seem that silly as a top figure. france have limits that go up to 80mph, Italy 95, only 30% of highways in germany have a limit at all, all though that may change in the future. At the moment you could travel at 170mph if wish. Australia 80mph.

You don't cruise at the the very top speed a car can do just like you don't listen to a HIFI at the fullest volume it can go. the peak speed and sustainable speed you wish a car to be able to sit at for any length of time is quite different.

One of the reasons the alternative tecnolagys get dismissed by the general public is because they just cant cut it among what we already have or offer a big enough advantage in another area to warrant the sacrifice.

IndyIan · 10-21-2008, 10:51 AM

Re: 100 mph topspeed.
I don't think this is as silly as it sounds. Imagine a 25mph headwind and going up a slight grade for a mile or two. Folks in the upper midwest states get this all the time. So now the car is pretty much maxed out to maintain 60 mph which is sort of reasonable for most hypermilers. However Joe and Jane Public will have the throttle to the floor the whole time so the vehicle better be built to handle that.
99% of cars today won't handle 100% throttle for minutes at a time but have the hp so they aren't used that way.
It would be cool if someone dropped a prius drivetrain into something like this and won:

thefirebuilds · 10-21-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trikkonceptz

Well I agree with you on the speed issue, however a range of 200 miles is still low for me. Not because I am to lazy to plug in each night but because I live in the penis of the USA and everywhere I need or want to go is north south.

Are you saying the Florida Keys are the venereal disease of the US?

captainslug · 10-21-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennelson

How many places have a 90 mph speed limit?

Montana and Texas. But that's about it.

bennelson · 10-21-2008, 11:43 AM

I guess I just can't agree that a 100 MPH MINIMUM top speed is needed to be "safe" in traffic, especially in a vehicle designed for fuel economy.

I measured the trunk of the Metro, even if the car could get 100 mpg and go at least 200 miles on a fueling, it wouldn't meet the minimum STORAGE REQUIREMENTS for the X-Prize.

Anyone wanna bet some version of a Hybrid SUV will win the big event?
(Of course with the power everything removed to save weight!)

PS: Is that car in post 15 the one in the Art Museum in Minneapolis? I think I have seen it in person.

MazdaMatt · 10-21-2008, 12:00 PM

I totally agree with the rules. None of these things are totally out of whack. I've never even driven a single car that did not meet all of those requirements except for 100mpg. They aren't trying to get "the new metro" (ie, perceived bottom of the barrel), they are trying to get "the new accord"... a middle of the road car with exceptional economy. My daily driver (protege) has a top speed of over 200km/h (without governor and would take well over a minute to get that speed), but in real driving it is by no means a sports car or a boheamoth.