Bazillion speed auto trannies.

[redpoint5]

The only complaint I have against my wonderful 6-speed manual TSX is the utter uselessness of the 6th gear. The close-ratio gearbox has me cruising in 6th gear by 30 MPH. At 60 MPH, I'm at 3,000 RPM. The problem is that the top gear isn't useful on a racetrack either, as you would need a 2 mile long straight to run out 5th gear and reach for 6th.

So, I'm stuck with a 6th gear that isn't useful at maximizing acceleration, or maximizing fuel economy.

Maybe I need a 7th gear?

[Hersbird]

Some of these don't work exactly as you would expect. It is possible they automatically skip ship for you or use something like 2 different 2nd gear ratios depending on load. The "4 speed" dodge 545rfe. It had an extra gear added with just a software change on the 99 Grand Cherokee after they were built and sold. It didn't need a whole extra mechanical gear added as it basically was a 3 speed auto with a gear splitter. They should be able to with just software make it a 6 speed. So a 4 speed with a gear splitter can be an 8 speed. You can add a aftermarket gear splitter like the gear vendors overdrive and not just get an overdrive but split your other gears as well to get 6 speeds out of any old 3 speed auto.
No doubt it's more then just marketing as some of these cars are available with both the 6 speed or the 8 speed in otherwise identical configuration, the 8 speed always has a better city and Highway EPA rating.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The only complaint I have against my wonderful 6-speed manual TSX is the utter uselessness of the 6th gear. The close-ratio gearbox has me cruising in 6th gear by 30 MPH. At 60 MPH, I'm at 3,000 RPM. The problem is that the top gear isn't useful on a racetrack either, as you would need a 2 mile long straight to run out 5th gear and reach for 6th.

So, I'm stuck with a 6th gear that isn't useful at maximizing acceleration, or maximizing fuel economy.

Maybe I need a 7th gear?

Ouch. That's what they did in the Fit. Heck, I remember my SVT Focus pulled around 2400 in 6th @60. It was miserable in town for FE but out on the open road it was a solid 36mpg with a 90s tech engine, modified by Cosworth, and intended as a Civic Si competitor rather than a regular compact A-B car.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Some of these don't work exactly as you would expect. It is possible they automatically skip ship for you or use something like 2 different 2nd gear ratios depending on load. The "4 speed" dodge 545rfe. It had an extra gear added with just a software change on the 99 Grand Cherokee after they were built and sold. It didn't need a whole extra mechanical gear added as it basically was a 3 speed auto with a gear splitter. They should be able to with just software make it a 6 speed. So a 4 speed with a gear splitter can be an 8 speed. You can add a aftermarket gear splitter like the gear vendors overdrive and not just get an overdrive but split your other gears as well to get 6 speeds out of any old 3 speed auto.
No doubt it's more then just marketing as some of these cars are available with both the 6 speed or the 8 speed in otherwise identical configuration, the 8 speed always has a better city and Highway EPA rating.

That's why I like the old BW overdrive units. They're kind of an odd bird to operate but quite effective.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The only complaint I have against my wonderful 6-speed manual TSX is the utter uselessness of the 6th gear. The close-ratio gearbox has me cruising in 6th gear by 30 MPH. At 60 MPH, I'm at 3,000 RPM. The problem is that the top gear isn't useful on a racetrack either, as you would need a 2 mile long straight to run out 5th gear and reach for 6th.

So, I'm stuck with a 6th gear that isn't useful at maximizing acceleration, or maximizing fuel economy.

Maybe I need a 7th gear?

The mention of the Corvette 7-speed and now this reminds me of the Viper, which did it right (until they altered 5th and 6th ratios in 2010): 5 speeds for acceleration/performance (with 5th gear tall enough to exceed the car's 192mph top speed), and one absurdly high gear for the highway. Here it is on I-90 in Wyoming, summer of 2009:



1900rpm at 80mph. That 2100-mile trip returned 21.9mpg, not bad for an 8.0L engine.

[Baltothewolf]

Originally Posted by Vman455

The mention of the Corvette 7-speed and now this reminds me of the Viper, which did it right (until they altered 5th and 6th ratios in 2010): 5 speeds for acceleration/performance (with 5th gear tall enough to exceed the car's 192mph top speed), and one absurdly high gear for the highway. Here it is on I-90 in Wyoming, summer of 2009:



1900rpm at 80mph. That 2100-mile trip returned 21.9mpg, not bad for an 8.0L engine.

Now THAT is how you do a transmission! I wish more companies would realize this. Make a normal close geared 5-speed for quickness, then put 6th in there that's EXTREMELY tall so you can get good mileage on the way TO the track! And 22? I'm so jealous, my mustang would get 14 on a good day -.-.

[elhigh]

I'm glad you mentioned the Viper. Jalopnik asked the question the other day, how many gears do you really need? Citing the Viper, I said you could get away with one.

It depends on the engine, of course. With the Viper's tugboat torque, 3rd gets you from a standstill to over 100 without ever touching the shifter.

I used to have a 1978 Civic with the "Hondamatic" two-speed, and I really liked it. No clutch, but you still had to shift it. The shifter looked like one from an auto, too.

The torque converter gave it some extra twist, and the car was actually very zippy in traffic. First gear took you to 50mph, and Second took you everywhere else, all the way up to an Oh-God-I'm-Going-To-Die 95.

With a slightly taller Second and a lockup TC, that would have been one of the best transmissions I've ever driven. It's in my top five regardless.

I don't think more is better.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by elhigh

I'm glad you mentioned the Viper. Jalopnik asked the question the other day, how many gears do you really need? Citing the Viper, I said you could get away with one.

It depends on the engine, of course. With the Viper's tugboat torque, 3rd gets you from a standstill to over 100 without ever touching the shifter.

I used to have a 1978 Civic with the "Hondamatic" two-speed, and I really liked it. No clutch, but you still had to shift it. The shifter looked like one from an auto, too.

The torque converter gave it some extra twist, and the car was actually very zippy in traffic. First gear took you to 50mph, and Second took you everywhere else, all the way up to an Oh-God-I'm-Going-To-Die 95.

With a slightly taller Second and a lockup TC, that would have been one of the best transmissions I've ever driven. It's in my top five regardless.

I don't think more is better.

While you could "get away" with one gear, you need to make compromises that may be undesirable. Either acceleration will be severely hindered, or you need to have a very loose viscous coupling to allow the engine to get up to speed (which reduces efficiency) or you need some other power source to pick up the slack.

Your Viper in 3rd gear would be able to accelerate, but not rapidly until maybe 30-50 mph.

Powerglides (2-speed GM tranny) are often used in drag racing because they are light, can be made to be robust, and only one shift tends to improve consistency. With a loose torque converter, acceleration is still excellent, but you wouldn't want this combo for commuting to work every day.

If you are Koenigsegg, you can build a supercar with one speed... and use electric motors to boost low speed performance:
How The 1,500 HP Koenigsegg Regera Hits 248 MPH Without A Gearbox

However, for a conventional, basic commuter car where efficiency is the primary goal... more IS better (generally).

[serialk11r]

The issue with the 6 speed Vettes (and really all big American engined cars) is that the gear ratio spreads are massive, even with the ginormous gap between 5th and 6th. That's what happens when you have a car that has enough power to top 200mph and you only have 5 "performance" gears. Giant gaps are kind of a buzzkill in an otherwise fun car.

Now for the vast majority of cars I would not really mind if they only had 6 gears since the first 5 will generally be short enough and close enough. For example my FR-S is a tad above average in terms of acceleration, 1st gear is 3.5, 2nd is 2.1, 5th is 1.0. I find that to be fairly good gear spacing (would prefer a shorter 2nd and 3rd though, the 3-4 shift is totally useless while not on a race track). 6th gear is 0.767, which unless you bolted a turbo to the car or completely stripped the car down to 1 ton curb weight, you'll never reach on the track (5th tops out at 137mph). It would have been better to make the gear 10% taller (engine already runs rich trying to pull up a steeper grade ), and give up a few mph of top speed.

Judging from how I sometimes get 1st and reverse mixed up when I have the lockout ring pulled, I can see why 7 speeds could get awkward. However, I haven't actually tried driving a 7 speed manual before, and maybe I would like it. It's almost a necessity on 300+hp cars.

[Baltothewolf]

Tbh I will always protest that CVT's are vastly superior to traditional auto's. I can accelerate with a light foot at 1700rpm in my civic, at a constant rate, all the way up to 65 when the ratio runs out, and cruise at 1900rpm at 70. Or, I can stomp on it and accelerate at 5500rpm all the way to 70, or mild throttle and accelerate at 2000rpm. They gotta be lighter than a 7-9 speed transmission autos, and are more efficient if memory serves me right.