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Old 12-18-2019, 02:59 PM   #281 (permalink)
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Fast Lane EV tow testing

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
Not a test of towing power, a test of dead weight and traction. A towing test would be to hook a max rated trailer up with a big frontal aera and go up a mountain pass to check power, down the other side to check braking, or down a flat piece of interstate to check economy. TFLtruck on u-tube does these tests very fair and consistently for most trucks, I look forward to their test of the Cybertruck in 3 years.
I've watched three of their tests with the Tesla Model X pulling trailers (Can Electric Cars Tow?)It will be a while before I can comment.The most crucial data is omitted from the presentation,and there's incoherent methodologies used.Quite a can of worms!
PS They're astounded when the Model X uses over 1,000 Wh/mi pulling up the Loveland Pass grade on I-70,while failing to mention the 3,839 Wh/mi the Ram pickup used, returning 278-mile range,from a 1.375 MWh 'battery.'

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Old 12-18-2019, 03:15 PM   #282 (permalink)
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From what I've read on EV forums, and in consideration of the physics at play, there's nearly no loss in range due to weight or gaining elevation, assuming the start and finish elevation are the same.

The extra power required to climb a grade is reclaimed when descending back down. Any excess speed that would otherwise be wasted in an ICE vehicle is instead recaptured at fairly high rates of efficiency.

Same with weight. Once the extra power is expended to bring it up to speed, no extra power is required, and it gets mostly recovered by regen when slowing back down.

Aerodynamics is nearly everything in an EV. That's what consumes the energy.

I expect Hersbird is correct about 1/3 the range when pulling something very aerodynamically dirty. The weight won't matter so much; only the shape.

The other range killer is cold temperatures. Some people see only 50-60% of their summertime range in the winter. Combine cold temps with a large trailer, and people could see 25% of the range they would otherwise get with no trailer in the summer.

All that said, I'd never intend to use an EV for long distance travel in the first place, so it's all moot for me. ICE is the appropriate tool for the long distance job for now. If I were a contractor needing a truck for local jobs, the CT would be a serious consideration for me.
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:01 PM   #283 (permalink)
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50%

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They did so with the Model X, performance wise it did real well. It was a worst case scenario, the trailer empty weighed as much as the tow rating so it wound up being the highest aero drag possible. It climbed faster than most were capable of, and the regenerative braking meant they rarely had to hit the brakes. They did find that they got about 1/3 of the range, they were not driving conservatively. Engineering Explained did a good episode on why the range is so short.

I am expecting the Cybertruck to loose about 50% of its range pulling my trailer, which is why I want the option to get the larger battery pack for the dual motor.
The Popular Mechanics' 2013 Tundra SR5 CrewMax,towing 10,000-lbs,dropped from 21.6 mpg,to 10.4 mpg,getting only 48% of its solo mpg.
The 2013 Titan,pulling its rated load,got 49.5% of its solo mpg.
The Tesla Model X,pulling the 4,500-lb,Cimmaron,16-foot,Showstar horse trailer,away from the mountains got 42-mpg.
The Ram pickup, which they love, got 17-mpg
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:23 PM   #284 (permalink)
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1/3

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
It wasn't the worst aerodynamics possible, it was a nice v nosed cargo trailer if I remember right. There are plenty of 8' wide, 10' high campers with an awning on the side and a A/c on the roof that are within the tow rating, and would be a more common usage for a $100k family car. Not many painters or carpet cleaners are going to use the model X to tow their cargo trailer. When they lost 2/3 of the range they were towing a teardrop sized micro camper. The range dropping to just 1/3 is going to be a best case scenario towing a real camper behind the Cybertruck. Next problem will be with twice the battery, it's going to take twice as long to recharge.
That's probably a good working number.So far,the best I've seen was the Model 3 pulling a Happier Camper,HC1,from Santa Monica,Calif. up to Mojave,a 2500-ft climb,at 55-mph,returning 373 Wh-mi,89.5 mpge,164-miles range.
Into the mountains,towards Lonepine,and down to as bad as 707.6 Wh/mi.,with an average 555 Wh/mi.,60.18 mpge and 110 miles range.
The Long Range Model 3 will help.Cybertruck is anticipated at 200-kWh.Should be interesting to see how things shake out in 2021.
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:39 PM   #285 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
If I were a contractor needing a truck for local jobs, the CT would be a serious consideration for me.
Were I a contractor, my job shack would be a 1960s Airstream Bambi with Tesla drivetrain retrofit and an inverted-U wing on the back.


aerohead: I can't explain how a fixed airfoil results in forward thrust. ???



edit:
I didn't watch paste the first commercial, and the guy is trying to be a jerk so no embed for him, just a link: We built a fake Cybertruck to troll Tesla.

But he comes up with a 'redneck' aerocap that is pure Cardboard [and duct tape] Aided Design.
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:46 PM   #286 (permalink)
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cold

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
From what I've read on EV forums, and in consideration of the physics at play, there's nearly no loss in range due to weight or gaining elevation, assuming the start and finish elevation are the same.

The extra power required to climb a grade is reclaimed when descending back down. Any excess speed that would otherwise be wasted in an ICE vehicle is instead recaptured at fairly high rates of efficiency.

Same with weight. Once the extra power is expended to bring it up to speed, no extra power is required, and it gets mostly recovered by regen when slowing back down.

Aerodynamics is nearly everything in an EV. That's what consumes the energy.

I expect Hersbird is correct about 1/3 the range when pulling something very aerodynamically dirty. The weight won't matter so much; only the shape.

The other range killer is cold temperatures. Some people see only 50-60% of their summertime range in the winter. Combine cold temps with a large trailer, and people could see 25% of the range they would otherwise get with no trailer in the summer.

All that said, I'd never intend to use an EV for long distance travel in the first place, so it's all moot for me. ICE is the appropriate tool for the long distance job for now. If I were a contractor needing a truck for local jobs, the CT would be a serious consideration for me.
One website discussing Cybertruck gave it a cold weather rating of 485-miles City/335-miles HWY.
CAR and DRIVER reported that,in 1000-miles of mixed winter driving,their 2015 Ford F-150 SuperCab 2.7 EcoBoost 4X4 was averaging 16-mpg,compared to its EPA 18/23 mpg rating.EPA considers 75-F 'cold' as far as tires go,so rolling resistance is definitely impacted.Air density/aero.Lubricant viscosity and power-train drag.
What really kills ICE vehicles is traffic congestion,and wrecks.For the national aggregate fleet,American cars are only averaging 17-mpg. CVTs and 10-speed transmissions,stop-start,are helping,but stop-and -go has gotta go!
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Old 12-18-2019, 06:27 PM   #287 (permalink)
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The nice thing about a diesel puller is you don't lose as much range when working, maybe 1/3. Also a gas puller gets into a better thermal efficiency area when it's working so while it may lose 1/2 it's range that's not as bad as the EV which gains no efficiency with added work and loses 2/3 of it's range.
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Old 12-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #288 (permalink)
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Well as I said, it depends on if that added work is fighting aero drag, or if it's merely hauling weight around.

Double the weight of the CT but put all of it inside the vehicle, and you'd hardly notice any drop in range. Very little is wasted going down steep grades or otherwise slowing down.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:35 PM   #289 (permalink)
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Comment about the fake Cybertruck: "Hearing this guy's story isn't worth anyone's time."
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Old 12-19-2019, 12:21 AM   #290 (permalink)
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Did you watch or just read the comments? I got the picture before the [first] commercial caused the tab to close.

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