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Old 04-11-2019, 12:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Brazilian law to allow police shoot anyone with a rifle.

I will not say my opinion right now, but I want to listen from american people about this, since a lot of americans by law can even carry a rifle or army rifle on streets.

A brazilian law proposed by a minister is to allow (if approved) police (snipers) to shoot anyone carrying a rifle.
This was proposed because on Rio de Janeiro it's often to very violent drug dealer carry automatic rifles, in many cases army rifles or similars ro shoot and execute pólice officers. They even shoot and took down a police helicopter. It's almost a war situation on Rio de Janeiro.



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Old 04-11-2019, 01:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: pic: They don't appear to be using guns for protection, hunting, or sport unless intimidation and crime are sport.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You make it sound like it's crazy that we can open carry firearms in the US. The thing is, criminals don't care what the law is, which is the definition of being a criminal. Outlawing firearms only removes them from law abiding citizens. Besides, a person peaceably carrying a firearm brings about a sphere of protection for everyone else nearby.

I don't know the details of the problems in Rio de Janeiro, but as with most everything, it's cultural. If there's a powerful and violent drug cartel, it's because the community has allowed them a foothold in the first place.

Maybe the proposed law will help in Brazil, but that's an extreme way to address a problem that was allowed to get out of control a long time ago.

Many of my friends and even my sister conceal carry. They don't do so because it's so violent here that we need to; rather the violence is held in check anytime someone peaceably carries.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The radical leftwing here use to say they all are just victms of society and that police must to wait until get some shot before open fire against criminals.


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Re: pic: They don't appear to be using guns for protection, hunting, or sport unless intimidation and crime are sport.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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In the US, the vast majority of police encounters with people carrying firearms is peaceful. Police will give instruction to suspects, and may shoot them if they aren't followed.

That's one of the reasons this country needs an official language. If there is no agreed upon language, then it isn't reasonable to expect a person to follow orders when their life is on the line.

Aviation safety is maintained by an agreed upon language, similarly an agreed upon language is necessary for the safety of citizens.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's much the same in the worst areas of Mexico. It sounds like martial law to me.
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, Rio de Janeiro it's in critical situation, since a lot of politicians in corrupt organizations destroyed the city along the decades. Many police forces are also corrupt and have deals with organized crime drug dealers.

Right now brazilian army forces are in action, but they are not trained to deal with civilizans very well. Few day ago a car with a non-criminal, a family of a musician, got more than 80 rounds from army rifles, killing the driver (father of the family) and injuring his father in law. It was reported that the soldiers even made fun of the killing. Now 10 army soldiers are arrested.
It's a jungle.

A lot of minors, who works for drug deallers leaders carry rifles. SOme people grow-up among criminals. There was the case of a girl who was victm of collective rape when she faint during a group sex relation with many men. Seh had posed photos smilling with many criminals carrying large automatic rifles. Leftwing portrait her as a victim of rape (and she was since more man get penetration of her after she faint) but for me the huge crime wasn't the rape but the process of she grown among such people, dangerous criminals, feeling it was a normal thing.

The question is that snipers could shoot minors carrying rifles. Brazil have huge favelas (slum) on Rio de Janeiro, under domain of drug dealers like almost a independent state, where the law that worth for people who live there is the law imposed by drug deallers.

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Old 04-11-2019, 08:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Peacefull when USA police encounters white citizens carrying rifles...

I saw many news about black people being shot when police imagine a wallet in hand was a gun. I will not say it's 100% just racism, since criminal behavior among black people it's almost 10x higher than among white people. Police needd to take statistics somehow too when take decision. But the decision to take lethal force when there is no sure a guy have a gun... it's not nice.

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In the US, the vast majority of police encounters with people carrying firearms is peaceful. Police will give instruction to suspects, and may shoot them if they aren't followed.

That's one of the reasons this country needs an official language. If there is no agreed upon language, then it isn't reasonable to expect a person to follow orders when their life is on the line.

Aviation safety is maintained by an agreed upon language, similarly an agreed upon language is necessary for the safety of citizens.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It depends. As they say in the automotive world, YMMV.

It depends on who is doing the shooting and who is getting shot- loose ROE are a valuable tool in the hands of quality people, but the trouble is making sure all of your people are of a high enough quality because it only takes one rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel.

My ROE in Iraq had stages (mainly for idiots who could apply rules but not judgement). From the obvious (you see someone in an enemy uniform, your job is to shoot him) to the murky. The lowest threshold was if you "perceived hostile intent." The idea there was not to make the lowest private hold a trial inside his head before pulling the trigger when common sense said to shoot. In a world of language barriers and cultural differences (our hand signal for "stop" means something else there), things can go really wrong really fast- but if the kid reads it wrong, he shouldn't go to jail over it. The bottom line is: I would not have gone outside the berm of my little base if my ROE had not been that loose. I risked my life and the lives of my men by holding back, but I would not have gone out at all if it weren't entirely my call.

Parts of Brazil are... bad. They've allowed it (yes, if it's been going on for decades, the kids growing up in it and participating in it are "victims of society") to get that bad, and it needs to be stopped. If the Brazilian Army can't man checkpoints without lighting up innocent families and then making fun of them, then they need to do something else. Executing people for simply possessing something isn't the right answer, but let's examine the snipers: If they are basically hired assassins trying to keep the ruling party in power, it's bad. If they've got a more legitimate focus but are given rules that allow for them to use judgement, it's less bad. Think of an unarmed British Bobby walking a beat in Rio- he'd last two minutes. Now think of the same Bobby walking the same beat when everyone knows there's a sniper watching him. A sniper who isn't required to wait until you actually shoot the beat cop. The devil is in the details. But if it's done right, it just might work.

I can understand police down there not being willing to go out unless they can do what they need to do to protect themselves, but don't take that as an endorsement of this proposed law. It could be an improvement or just another loop in a downward spiral. Luckily for me, it's for Brazilians to figure out, not for the US to impose.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Carry a shot gun.

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