01-27-2009, 03:16 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Civic 4 Life
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Well I have no idea, but to be devil's advocate...if the manual causes 15% losses and the auto causes 17% losses, that is much more than "2% less efficient." The losses are in fact (.17/.15 - 1 = .13) 13% greater.
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01-27-2009, 04:10 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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EcoModding Newbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb
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Some automatics do lock the converter in every gear now, some don't of course. Its hard to generalize these days about transmissions, so many variations now.
Back to the original question, it would be good to have an oil pressure gauge so you could see how oil pressure varies with rpm, or even using very light oil like 0W20. Since most cars don't have one I imagine most cars are pretty safe using 1/2 throttle or less at any rpm over idle speed.
Ian
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01-27-2009, 04:52 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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needs more cowbell
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Fair Enough KJSats
I did learn from this discussion that aside from bucking (I think we all agree that a bucking engine is bad), there is a minimum rpm for adequate bearing oil coverage.
I do not have specific values for specific vehicles, but this diagrams the general idea:
Oil analysis and lubrication learning cennter
"This condition is represented by the equation ZN/P, where Z = viscosity, N = speed (rpm) and P = load. "
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WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
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01-27-2009, 05:16 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Moderate your Moderation.
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The numbers weren't accurate to begin with.. there is no fixed percentage of losses that can occur through a given type of drivetrain, so the numbers were placed there as holders to show the actual point - that automatic transmissions are no longer the power-defeating POS's they used to be.
I thought this would be evidenced by the use of words like "assumed" and "something like".
Sorry for not making that clear.
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01-27-2009, 05:39 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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needs more cowbell
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Well, folks go to great lengths for a %5-%15 improvement, so I'm not ready not rule out POS just yet
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WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
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01-27-2009, 08:37 PM
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#16 (permalink)
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Moderate your Moderation.
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Remember, that drivetrain loss is frictional/heat loss... it's not linear. It's an accepted average.
In fact, the losses multiply as speed increases, almost parallel to speed.
Anyway - the point was that automatics aren't as bad as they used to be... they're nearly as efficient as manuals are. Manuals still have vehicle control and longevity in their favor though.
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01-27-2009, 08:50 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Master EcoModder
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KiaRio ,
Welcome from me as well.
Enjoy your stay.
Cheers , Pete.
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01-28-2009, 01:40 PM
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#18 (permalink)
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EcoModding Lurker
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Here's a nice demonstration of the Z*N/P concept.
(Starting around 5:00)
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01-28-2009, 07:45 PM
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#19 (permalink)
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OCD Master EcoModder
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Very nice shots of internal parts in motion.
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Coast long and prosper.
Driving '00 Honda Insight, acquired Feb 2016.
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01-28-2009, 10:52 PM
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#20 (permalink)
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Depends on the Day
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If that's the case, idling has to be murder! Especially on cold starts...
RH77
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