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Old 02-26-2008, 11:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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well... if other emissions go down, give a little on those to keep NOx lower. That's what I've been thinking.

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Old 02-26-2008, 11:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Everything old is new again...

The Pinto came to my attention .....
Funny! I am sounding like some old historian- "I remember when..." But I had several Pinto station wagons in '75 to '85 since the 2-door design was ideal for me. Pinto Squire was my favorite since it had AC; and yes- I had a long recumbent trike way back then and it fit right in!

Hot Rod or Car Craft made a project Pinto wagon starting by adding on a long nose, chopping the top 2" and lowering the whole thing- Project Droop Snoot. Much more power; they stuffed a 302 V-8 in, then all that problem with burning gas tanks ruined that car.

The Aspire is as different as you can get, but it gets double the mpg any of the Pintos got.

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Old 02-27-2008, 02:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hello -

Google google google ... Here's the issue :

http://usedmagazines.com/titles/Car&Driver/1974/

Look for Car and Driver March 1974

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Old 03-07-2008, 11:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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( Car & Driver also did a follow up on this article using a Datsun 240Z. )
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Welcome to the site .Cd! Any idea where we could find that article?
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH77 View Post
I agree -- and have thought quite a bit about this.

We can make engines more efficient from a consumption standpoint, but emissions nevertheless increase. A catalytic converter and EGR setup are supposed to remove most of the NOx. Newer tech (although more expensive) could be implemented.

Too bad it's one or the other right now...

RH77
You can limit NOx by running lower combustion temps, but that generally means low compression and no lean burn. The lean burn can be overcome with EGR (inert gasses limit combustion intensity, and therefore temperature). This technology is applied to Honda's new 2nd gen. L-series engines, more efficient and cleaner than the D15z1. Traditional catalysts won't work in a lean burn environment because they require HC and the absence of O2 to transform NOx into N2 and O2.

The only legitimate technlogies that I know of right now are NOx adsorbers and Urea injection. I'm sure other stuff is in the works.
  • NOx adsorbers, as used on the Insight, are merely sponges that soak up NO during lean burn operation. The Insight either purges the adsorber by running rich momentarily or just through stoichiometric burn driving.
    .
  • Urea is commonly used by truckers in Europe, but it requires the hassle of an extra fluid and is energy intensive to make. The production of ammonia (basic component of Urea), mainly for fertilizer, is one of the most energy intensive processes in the US as far as I know (Haber Process, I believe). Not good for the holistic hypermiler I guess...

For those who care about the environment, forsaking NOx for mileage may be a bad idea. NOx is photochemical smog (Los Angeles), and a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2. It is also toxic and triggers allergies in some people...really, driving a car is like urinating in your water supply. We humans so smart.

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Old 03-08-2008, 03:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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good way to put it.
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCause View Post
The only legitimate technlogies that I know of right now are NOx adsorbers and Urea injection. I'm sure other stuff is in the works.
...
For those who care about the environment, forsaking NOx for mileage may be a bad idea. NOx is photochemical smog (Los Angeles), and a stronger greenhouse gas than CO2. It is also toxic and triggers allergies in some people...really, driving a car is like urinating in your water supply. We humans so smart.

- LostCause
So true.

I'd like to get an emissions test performed to see what's going on -- not required on this side of the State.

What would be interesting, is to examine the application of the new "Clean Diesel" catalysts to gasoline emission systems (urea-free, low-maintenance).

Also, the Honda K-series engines were designed without an EGR -- instead, variable cam timing keeps the valves in a position to utilize post-combustion product, at idle.

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Old 03-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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.Cd -

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Cd View Post
( Car & Driver also did a follow up on this article using a Datsun 240Z. )
Welcome to EM! My wife had a 260Z, so it would neat to read that article.

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Old 03-12-2008, 03:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Cd View Post
( Car & Driver also did a follow up on this article using a Datsun 240Z. )
Oh? I'd love to see that too.

---

FYI - I added pics of the Pinto to the first post in this thread, so you can go back up to see the massive air dam, grille block and rear spoiler they made.

Also made it an EM blog post, so if anyone here is a D I G G E R, check here: http://digg.com/environment/Car_and_...percent_for_11

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