Civic - Bad in the snow?

[Christ]

I drive on all-seasons all year round, except I might use summer performance or luxury touring tires through the hotter months.

[wwkayaker]

To state my experience, I grew up in the snow belt and have driven hundreds of miles in blizzards. I have driven many cars over the years (93 Grand Am, 94 Cavalier, and 99 Mazda Protege to name a few) and never had problems until I got this car. After looking over the specs of the past cars compaired to the current car, I noticed that the main difference was the ground clearance. I only have 4.9 inches of clearance in this car. Any snow above 1 inch causes me difficulties. The car power slides around most corners, loses traction in the front end, and bottoms out all of the time in the tire tracks of other cars. I don't put snow tires on my car anymore because they are a waste of money. It still won't go in more than 2 or 3 inches of snow. In those cases, I stay home.

IMO, I would say the car being lowered is the cause of the problem.

[MazdaMatt]

kayaker... I can't give you much credibility for your post... you say you live in a snowbelt, but you stay home in 3 inches of snow? You say winter tires do nothing, but in Quebec (where 3 inches of snow is considered a frost) 40% of all winter accidents are caused by the 10% of people that did not put on snow tires... then it was made law that you must have snow tires in that province during the winter.

If you have any trouble in snow under 6 inches deep, you need good snow tires first. If you still have trouble, you need driver training. If you STILL have trouble, you should probably go buy a subaru or just stay home cuz winter ain't your thing.

Personally, i LOVE driving in snow so deep that my car is actually ploughing it with the bumper. It is fun. When things get hairy, you just add more gas. My daily drive takes me down a road that has been "closed" (still accessible, but unploughed). The blizzards we get here don't leave us with only 3 inches of snow... that was really fun. The steep bridge over the highway was a little hairy, but more throttle solved that!

btw, i have my front tires cambered in from autocross, so my alignment is not very pro-winter.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt

kayaker... I can't give you much credibility for your post... you say you live in a snowbelt, but you stay home in 3 inches of snow? You say winter tires do nothing, but in Quebec (where 3 inches of snow is considered a frost) 40% of all winter accidents are caused by the 10% of people that did not put on snow tires... then it was made law that you must have snow tires in that province during the winter.

You missed why I stay home. If I had any of my past cars or trucks, I would have snow tires and would drive in the snow. I actually like playing in the snow and miss having a rear wheel drive during those times. The point is you MUST have more ground clearance that the snow and enough weight to keep the car grounded in order to get traction no matter what tires you have.

[MazdaMatt]

Okay, i see your point, but i'd still contend that my light weight FWD vehicle with relatively low clearance (low enough to bumper-plough on my drive home) is plenty good on my 4-year-old el' cheapo winter tires.

As for weight being good... that's just silly... you have more lateral momentum to contend with in a heavier vehicle. You also have more snow-cutting ability. So it literally balances out. I always see more people in pickup trucks losing control than cars.

[wwkayaker]

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt

Okay, i see your point, but i'd still contend that my light weight FWD vehicle with relatively low clearance (low enough to bumper-plough on my drive home) is plenty good on my 4-year-old el' cheapo winter tires.

As for weight being good... that's just silly... you have more lateral momentum to contend with in a heavier vehicle. You also have more snow-cutting ability. So it literally balances out. I always see more people in pickup trucks losing control than cars.

No argument with that! Also, Protege's have always been great in the snow with snow tires. The only time my 99 Protege (7 inches of clearance) got stuck was in 13 inches of snow on a hill on an unplowed, back road in south central Missouri and I just had all season tires (that part of Missouri doesn't get much snow). I ended up walking the last 50 ft to my friend's house. My friend drove us back in his Subaru AWD outback with snow chains (his driveway was very steep at the last 25 - 30 ft).

As for SUV and pickup trucks, they have the invulnerability complex effect I never understood or had a 4x4 as it pertains to most people (there are exceptions for farmers, loggers, etc. who really need 4x4). It is a waste of gas and money for most people in my point of view since I could go the same places and do the same things in a 2wd truck that most people do in 4x4s.

[wagonman76]

The type of snow makes a huge difference. Snow in the northern parts is more likely to be colder and brittle, so it can broken through easier and the tires bite better. As you go further south the snow is more likely to be warmer and heavy, which is much tougher to drive through.

I get a lot of both. 6" of warm snow is enough to nearly immobilize the wagon, even with its snow tires. But I have gone though twice that much when it the snow is super cold.

My 90 6000 wagon was the best car I ever had for snow driving, it would go through almost anything with all seasons, and then with snow tires it was just amazing, I didn't have to plow my driveway for half the winter. The 89 wagon is just OK. Both cars had V6, 4 speed auto w/3.33 final drive, identical options so similar weight, they are nearly identical. But there was one difference, the 90 was an SE which had rock-hard suspension, the 89 is an LE which rides much softer. It seems the harder suspension gives a harder bite into the snow.

[MazdaMatt]

That's a weird observation about the suspension. Typically snow and ice calls for soft suspension. All the guys i know with track/street cars who have harsh suspension swap out their springs for softer ones in the winter.
edit: oh yeah, and ice racers seem to like tall soft springs.

Totally agree with the invulnerability complex Most trucks are only better at accelerating in snow - not turning or stopping. I saw a lot of vehicles in the ditches this year, except for the freak incident with 7 cars and one delivery truck in the ditch because you couldn't tell where the ditch was (literally... it was just flat blown-over snow), the majority was pickup trucks, then minivans. The WORST ditchings (ie, >30 feet off the road) were all pickups.

[bgd73]

I used to like fbody cars in the snow. the 1980s. tall slipping trannies (never hot rods) very bouncy, cadillacish, and fun when you wanted it. My job had a beeper and many hours, used to drive in everyhting. The front sliding around was snow too deep, and I gave up eventually. FWD of any kind is not what is claimed, and when one does have self confidence about it, they are the first to get damn near killed learning the truth.
The subes are for me. Getting older, even my stubborness may have to get a newer one, there is nothing else to match the sube. I have even pulled a relatives stuck truck with a sube. I figured out afterwards the significance of what I had just done....

[brucepick]

One thing we've not mentioned is power to weight ratio. With enough torque delivered to the wheels, they will break traction with snow covered pavement. Cars with a lower power/weight ratio or with auto tranny (may have taller gearing and slower power engagement) will have an advantage, all other things being equal.

That said, I'm with those who have said that four snow tires and driver behavior are the biggest factors. Without proper snow tires there's no excuse for complaints about a car's snow handling.

I drove my "new to me" Civic HX, 5-spd in some real snow this past winter. It had (and has) nearly new all season Kumho's. It was OK but not nearly as good as a heavy Volvo RWD car with four snows. For snowy roads I prefer the Volvo.

Previous experience: '75/'76 Corolla and Datsun B210, both RWD. '86 Caravan, 5-spd. '87 Mazda 323, 5-spd. Several '80's Volvo 240s, auto, always with 4 snow tires + weight added in the back. The Volvos never failed me even in the worst winter conditions. The Civic gets better FE and has a/c, that's all.