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Old 12-11-2018, 11:57 AM   #4011 (permalink)
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Solar need some things to get better and keep growing reaching a good point in energy production :

-Affordable energy storage for night and for moments of low sun or weather blocking most of the sun. If everyone get solar panels they will no longer able to cell excedent energy from day to pay for grid energy at night.
Unless we count the industry activity, for home solar systems sells energy to them to get credits, we need to thinks the credits system can't keep going after 40% or 50% of people get solkar panels. But industry would probably reach solar panels before ordinary consumers, since large systems are cheaper (per kw) than home systems.

-Lower cost for inversors and stabilizer, the devices required to convert electricity voltage and current. The prices for such devices are already nearly the price of the solar panels itself, since the solar panels cost get cheaper every years but the inversors hadn't the same reduction.

-Better efficience. With solar panels cost decreasing the cost for roof adaptation and instalation got more and more significative for the total cost of a home solar panel system. So if home solar panels could reach 30% efficience, instead of 16% efficince of the most used for home systems, the cost of roof adaptation and instalation would be relatively reduced for kw produced.
Architects could start study to include solar systems, by designing homes that would be quite easier to adapt to solar projects.

Solar heaters also help, like solar water heaters for showers and for swin pools. Even some solar cookers could help, for example, in Australia, where right now some people are so in trouble with energy bills that some middle class people are eating cold food from yersterday to avoid increase energy bill with cooking. And I remamber that there are solar cookers that work even 5 hours after sundow, since it heats a salt during day, melt it, and the heat energy from it can warm or cook food hours later.





If the battery project I mentioned it's really true about a battery converts heat to ellectricity, solar panels could have a thin plate battery, or many thin plate batteries in a shape of a heatsink, to convert the heat energy from the solar panels, increasing the energy production of each panels, and also cooling the panels.
That would be perfect, cheap energy storage and also a little of energy production. But I don't know the limit of heat it can convert per battery. It's not like you throw it on fire and get a huge energy, no way, but it's more like a small coin battery convert energy for a LED. So a Large thin plate could convert energy to 1000 LEDs, let's say, and 5 thin plate, arranged like a heatsink converts energy to 5000 LEDs.


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Old 12-11-2018, 12:43 PM   #4012 (permalink)
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I've seen no evidence of a battery breakthrough.

There is nothing to suggest PV panels will achieve 30% efficiency in residential applications.

None of the huge problems have been resolved.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #4013 (permalink)
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Time will tell us where is the true.

Sunpower already reached 24% efficience in semi flexible solar cells. They have solar panels for home, more expensive than average but more durable, the loss of efficience per years it's much lower than low cost solar panels, the the lifespan it's much higher and helps compensate the higher price.

The battery breakthrough, well... the "glass electrolity" it's alread almost a breakthrough itself, since it allows to create lithium metal bateries instead of lithium ion batteries without fire hazard.
What they need to demosntrate now it's about the alleguetions of increased energy density after hundreds cycles, the sodium batteries with similar perfomance, and the use of lithium in cathode and anode. And of course, the allegations about self charge.

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I've seen no evidence of a battery breakthrough.

There is nothing to suggest PV panels will achieve 30% efficiency in residential applications.

None of the huge problems have been resolved.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:17 PM   #4014 (permalink)
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Some of the cheapest used solar panels on ebay right now are 21 to 22% efficient. 24% is common now. I don't care how efficient they are. My kind of efficiency is get the most watts for the least dollars.

Here is some good news.
Remember how I said the science behind man made climate change won't hold up in court, well that's whats happening.

https://eidclimate.org/exxonknew-act...-disappointed/

Geoffrey Supran – a Harvard researcher and advocate for fossil fuel divestment – cited a flawed paper he co-authored with fellow activist Naomi Oreskes as ammunition for the New York AG. Supran’s paper was heavily criticized by the foremost expert on content analysis, Kimberly A. Neuendorf, Ph.D., who said the paper was “unreliable, invalid, biased, not generalizable, and not replicable.” Undeterred, Supran did his best to use the lawsuit as an opportunity to reignite interest in his flawed paper.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:34 PM   #4015 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc View Post
Time will tell us where is the true.

Sunpower already reached 24% efficience in semi flexible solar cells. They have solar panels for home, more expensive than average but more durable, the loss of efficience per years it's much lower than low cost solar panels, the the lifespan it's much higher and helps compensate the higher price.

The battery breakthrough, well... the "glass electrolity" it's alread almost a breakthrough itself, since it allows to create lithium metal bateries instead of lithium ion batteries without fire hazard.
What they need to demosntrate now it's about the alleguetions of increased energy density after hundreds cycles, the sodium batteries with similar perfomance, and the use of lithium in cathode and anode. And of course, the allegations about self charge.
My point is that we can hope for better technology, but have to use what we actually have now.

I'd be fine with solar panels that only last 20 years and then degrade to 75%. I imagine in 20 years there will be much better stuff to replace it with, so I'd go with low cost over high durability.

No evidence has been presented of this supposed battery breakthrough. I've heard it described as a battery, a capacitor, and a thermopile; all in one. There is nothing that does all that efficiently and cost effectively, and the more it's hyped, the less it's believable. The only thing it hasn't been described as is a clean and safe nuclear reactor, a gravity harvesting battery, an elixir of youth, a stain remover, and a perpetual motion machine.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:44 PM   #4016 (permalink)
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We need to see the final cost to calculate the KW hour price. Roof instalation acessories, inversors, workmanship to install.
Roof adjusts&installation cost, plus high price of inversors, will become a worse issue if panels get cheaper.

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Some of the cheapest used solar panels on ebay right now are 21 to 22% efficient. 24% is common now. I don't care how efficient they are. My kind of efficiency is get the most watts for the least dollars.
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:09 PM   #4017 (permalink)
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Inverters are cheap if you buy large multi Kw level ones.
They can be had for under 15 cents per watt of capacity for residential solar installs.
Utility inverters that produce 480v power are even cheaper.
I remember not that long ago the inverter was the most expensivepart of the system by far with inverter costs at nearly $1 per watt
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:44 PM   #4018 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil
In the east the land lies above sea level; mostly peat and clay layered with ancient beaches and dunes that have been pushed up into hills at the end of giant glaciers coming down from Scandinavia during the last ice age.
Ah, shriveling peat. Isn't there a pill for that? In the Columbia River Basin there're hills of gravel hundred of feet high from Eastern Washington scablands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc
Time will tell us where is the true.
The future proves the past?

The answer is right in front of us all the time, the clothesline paradox.

Quote:
What is the efficience of this system of energy storage bellow ?
Less than weight on an inclined rail.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:39 PM   #4019 (permalink)
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There is nothing very paradoxical about humans being forced back to using clotheslines to dry their laundry and horses to plow their fields after fossil fuel gets remote.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:58 PM   #4020 (permalink)
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I imagine machines are what largely eliminated slavery, not simply enlightened moral values.

Losing the productivity of machines and cheap abundant energy would put human morality at risk.

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