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Old 12-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #4011 (permalink)
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Time will tell us where is the true.

Sunpower already reached 24% efficience in semi flexible solar cells. They have solar panels for home, more expensive than average but more durable, the loss of efficience per years it's much lower than low cost solar panels, the the lifespan it's much higher and helps compensate the higher price.

The battery breakthrough, well... the "glass electrolity" it's alread almost a breakthrough itself, since it allows to create lithium metal bateries instead of lithium ion batteries without fire hazard.
What they need to demosntrate now it's about the alleguetions of increased energy density after hundreds cycles, the sodium batteries with similar perfomance, and the use of lithium in cathode and anode. And of course, the allegations about self charge.

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I've seen no evidence of a battery breakthrough.

There is nothing to suggest PV panels will achieve 30% efficiency in residential applications.

None of the huge problems have been resolved.

 
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:17 PM   #4012 (permalink)
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Some of the cheapest used solar panels on ebay right now are 21 to 22% efficient. 24% is common now. I don't care how efficient they are. My kind of efficiency is get the most watts for the least dollars.

Here is some good news.
Remember how I said the science behind man made climate change won't hold up in court, well that's whats happening.

https://eidclimate.org/exxonknew-act...-disappointed/

Geoffrey Supran – a Harvard researcher and advocate for fossil fuel divestment – cited a flawed paper he co-authored with fellow activist Naomi Oreskes as ammunition for the New York AG. Supran’s paper was heavily criticized by the foremost expert on content analysis, Kimberly A. Neuendorf, Ph.D., who said the paper was “unreliable, invalid, biased, not generalizable, and not replicable.” Undeterred, Supran did his best to use the lawsuit as an opportunity to reignite interest in his flawed paper.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:34 PM   #4013 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc View Post
Time will tell us where is the true.

Sunpower already reached 24% efficience in semi flexible solar cells. They have solar panels for home, more expensive than average but more durable, the loss of efficience per years it's much lower than low cost solar panels, the the lifespan it's much higher and helps compensate the higher price.

The battery breakthrough, well... the "glass electrolity" it's alread almost a breakthrough itself, since it allows to create lithium metal bateries instead of lithium ion batteries without fire hazard.
What they need to demosntrate now it's about the alleguetions of increased energy density after hundreds cycles, the sodium batteries with similar perfomance, and the use of lithium in cathode and anode. And of course, the allegations about self charge.
My point is that we can hope for better technology, but have to use what we actually have now.

I'd be fine with solar panels that only last 20 years and then degrade to 75%. I imagine in 20 years there will be much better stuff to replace it with, so I'd go with low cost over high durability.

No evidence has been presented of this supposed battery breakthrough. I've heard it described as a battery, a capacitor, and a thermopile; all in one. There is nothing that does all that efficiently and cost effectively, and the more it's hyped, the less it's believable. The only thing it hasn't been described as is a clean and safe nuclear reactor, a gravity harvesting battery, an elixir of youth, a stain remover, and a perpetual motion machine.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:44 PM   #4014 (permalink)
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We need to see the final cost to calculate the KW hour price. Roof instalation acessories, inversors, workmanship to install.
Roof adjusts&installation cost, plus high price of inversors, will become a worse issue if panels get cheaper.

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Some of the cheapest used solar panels on ebay right now are 21 to 22% efficient. 24% is common now. I don't care how efficient they are. My kind of efficiency is get the most watts for the least dollars.
 
Old 12-11-2018, 03:09 PM   #4015 (permalink)
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Inverters are cheap if you buy large multi Kw level ones.
They can be had for under 15 cents per watt of capacity for residential solar installs.
Utility inverters that produce 480v power are even cheaper.
I remember not that long ago the inverter was the most expensivepart of the system by far with inverter costs at nearly $1 per watt
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:44 PM   #4016 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil
In the east the land lies above sea level; mostly peat and clay layered with ancient beaches and dunes that have been pushed up into hills at the end of giant glaciers coming down from Scandinavia during the last ice age.
Ah, shriveling peat. Isn't there a pill for that? In the Columbia River Basin there're hills of gravel hundred of feet high from Eastern Washington scablands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Darc
Time will tell us where is the true.
The future proves the past?

The answer is right in front of us all the time, the clothesline paradox.

Quote:
What is the efficience of this system of energy storage bellow ?
Less than weight on an inclined rail.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:39 PM   #4017 (permalink)
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There is nothing very paradoxical about humans being forced back to using clotheslines to dry their laundry and horses to plow their fields after fossil fuel gets remote.
 
Old 12-11-2018, 06:58 PM   #4018 (permalink)
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I imagine machines are what largely eliminated slavery, not simply enlightened moral values.

Losing the productivity of machines and cheap abundant energy would put human morality at risk.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:46 PM   #4019 (permalink)
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Well, it's not Shakespeare, but summarises well the sh...thole that's human nature :



I bet that even if there was food for everyone in a future of dificults for food production, but people would receive food in a form of controlled ration based in hight, weigh, metabolism and activity of everyone, there would be people killing just to get extra food, just for gluttony.

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I imagine machines are what largely eliminated slavery, not simply enlightened moral values.

Losing the productivity of machines and cheap abundant energy would put human morality at risk.
 
Old 12-11-2018, 09:29 PM   #4020 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I imagine machines are what largely eliminated slavery, not simply enlightened moral values.

Losing the productivity of machines and cheap abundant energy would put human morality at risk.
A healthy person can do .6kWH of physical work per 8 hour work day. We replaced human slaves with fossil slaves. World average is 50 fossil slaves standing behind each person. USA people have 200 each.

 
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