The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

How else do we get people to quit buying 20mpg sport utes and pick up trucks just to drive to work in. The free market has no cost for the depletion of oil that people will still need in the future after it is gone by us. And no cost for the harmful emissions.

[fusion210]

Originally Posted by sendler

How else do we get people to quit buying 20mpg sport utes and pick up trucks just to drive to work in. The free market has no cost for the depletion of oil that people will still need in the future after it is gone by us. And no cost for the harmful emissions.

You can't. You have to eliminate them from market.
You can spend, $30k, $40k, $50k+ on these things and pay the now average 65 month long loan up to 84 months.

I love how almost all vehicles that have been built since 2000 (and earlier) can last over 200k miles with the factory maintenance schedule before needing engine/transmission work, but 6-7 year loans?!?

[freebeard]

On topic, Scott Adams Episode 371:

Fraudulent skeptic chart about CO2 and temperature not tracking
 Chart omitted the sun. With the sun, they do track
 The sun matters, it’s included in scientists calculations
Invalid rebuttal to say that the climate is always changing
 Everyone agrees it’s changing, the issue is the rate
CO2 increases cloud formations, which increases heat retention
 Sounds logical, but debate exists, might not be correct
Presentation of arguments by both skeptics and believers
Climate models seem closer to BS than science
 The basic argument seems pretty solid, but not the models

Starts at 30:00. IIMHO some of his political theories are whack, but I like the idea of training Pointer dogs to patrol the Southern border and bark at strangers. The bark would turn on a transponder and broadcast a location and azimuth.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

When the government say we will take your money, hold on to it for a little while then give it right back and everything will get better. It's a trap.

So what do you think of AOC in Congress asking for a Green New Deal and the end of infernal combustion?

[oil pan 4]

The green deal is another attempt to pass cap and tax that failed to pass in 2008 when the Democrats had the super majority.
I don't know why they even bother, have they seen the numbers in the senate or the guy in the white house. Or maybe these new congress members are idiots and don't understand how the government works.
Otherwise it's a typical stupid liberal agenda, force the end of the internal combustion engine and give no viable solution to replace it.
If you look at how it works all they do is punish and penalize the consumer, that's it, thats their great plan and it's crap. It does almost nothing to reduce CO2 production.
End the internal combustion engine? Sure, sounds good great right, well it doesn't actually solve any problems.
If we woke up tomorrow and every passenger vehicle magically turned into an electric vehicle over night that would only reduce CO2 production by about 10% because most of our electric power comes from coal and natural gas.
The new green deal is a fake, feel good, non-solution.

[sendler]

Did I post the Jeremy Rifkin lecture here yet? Watch it on 1.5 speed to save time. He outlines the infrastrucure shifts needed worldwide for a new, more efficient society.
.
https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA
.
Very optimistic and inspiring. But he only briefly alluded to the relationship of energy and economy by stating that a crash is coming when oil prices go over $120 and skipped past it.
.
I agree that we need to move to an internet of things sharing economy world wide. But it takes energy to make the transition so we need to stop all superfluous human activities and focus our remaining fossil fuel wealth to get as much done as possible before oil starts to slip away. It will leave us before we are ready to leave it. Along with many other peaking non renewable resources.
.
He also (deliberately?) leaves out any concept of scale and density of rebuildable solar and wind compared to the amount of energy we are using now.
.
So I agree we should strive for his vision with full dedication of remaining resources but also be ready with a simpler "Plan B" for the times when the techno solution falters over the inevitable speed bumps.

[All Darc]

A lot opf people imagine that it could be possible to harvest energy from the power of magnets. But they usually don't know thermodynamics. They think,it would be possible to create a perpetual motion machine.
After all such people see the power of magnets as someting pulling or pushing someting, like gravity pushs. But even gravity needs differential of potential to allow harvest energy, otherwise we would have generator to harvest it.

The most absurd example of ignorance about thermodynamics came in the shape of a TV News about a car moved by air, compressed air engine. The car came with a home compressor to someone be able to compress the tanks in home. In the end of the reportage the narrator said :

https://youtu.be/ztFDqcu8oJ4?t=155

Originally Posted by aerohead

Wouldn't it simply be a matter of the strength of the magnetic field (flux) capable with s superconducter?

[freebeard]

I don't know why they even bother, have they seen the numbers in the senate or the guy in the white house. Or maybe these new congress members are idiots and don't understand how the government works.

There's at least the one. Maybe more.

My favorite example is abolishing the Electoral College. "Times change. The Founding Fathers were silly geese." Fact is the Electoral College is there because the Founding Fathers saw them coming.

Good luck getting 3/4 of the States governors to ratify that.

[sendler]

If you go to a straight popular vote determination, L.A. county has more votes than these entire states each have.
.
.

.
.

[oil pan 4]

That's why they want to make it a popularity contest.
I already know how that will go.
They campaign in CA, NY and FL. Then the rest of the country becomes little more than a source of income to fund the wishes, dreams and bad decisions of those places.

[RedDevil]

Well you can try to flood some of them by burning a lot of gas...