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Old 01-12-2019, 02:51 PM   #4501 (permalink)
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proclaim

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I like Scott Adams, so I'll check it out eventually.

The thing that makes GW/GCC believers sound like religious zealots is that any negative event that occurs they will proclaim "see, that's what global warming does". It could be a colder than normal week in Chicago, and we're then told that it's directly attributable to GW, which is directly attributable to human CO2 production.

Thiests make similar proclamations when something complex is attributed to an all-encompassing God did it explanation.

I don't begrudge anyone for behaving that way because people have their reasons for conviction, and if their beliefs are true, it demands a response. They may very well be correct in their broad reflexive proclamation, but the subject deserves as detailed a response as can be articulated. It isn't useful to say "because God" or "because global warming".

That is a reason I keep coming back to this thread though, because plenty of people on here are willing to provide as much info as they can come up with to support their understanding of things.
I suppose that I'll need an expensive cable or satellite service to have access to these abuses.
I scan the normal broadcast media,and except for PBS and AccuWeather.com,I never hear the words 'climate change.'
Their comments are always contextual,conditional,typically referring to a 'record' event,or 'black swan',which are fair game,as these ARE events which are demonstrated to have a correlation,and are always from an actual climatologist,or a messenger using information from a climatologist.

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Old 01-12-2019, 10:20 PM   #4502 (permalink)
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I ran across an article about the Climate Leadership Council's proposal,from February,2017, for a revenue-neutral carbon tax,beginning at $40/ton,which would be applied at the 'source',for any product originating from that source.
For instance,with gasoline,it would be the equivalent of an extra 39.2-cents/per gallon.
Then the average family of four would receive about $2,000/year.
Redistribution of wealth scam.
So give more money to people who already effectively pay almost 0 taxes as it is. Sounds like vote buying to me.
I already drive an electric incase this kind of stupidity gets signed into law.

When the government say we will take your money, hold on to it for a little while then give it right back and everything will get better. It's a trap.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:44 PM   #4503 (permalink)
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How else do we get people to quit buying 20mpg sport utes and pick up trucks just to drive to work in. The free market has no cost for the depletion of oil that people will still need in the future after it is gone by us. And no cost for the harmful emissions.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:51 AM   #4504 (permalink)
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How else do we get people to quit buying 20mpg sport utes and pick up trucks just to drive to work in. The free market has no cost for the depletion of oil that people will still need in the future after it is gone by us. And no cost for the harmful emissions.
You can't. You have to eliminate them from market.
You can spend, $30k, $40k, $50k+ on these things and pay the now average 65 month long loan up to 84 months.

I love how almost all vehicles that have been built since 2000 (and earlier) can last over 200k miles with the factory maintenance schedule before needing engine/transmission work, but 6-7 year loans?!?
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:36 AM   #4505 (permalink)
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On topic, Scott Adams Episode 371:
Code:
Fraudulent skeptic chart about CO2 and temperature not tracking
 Chart omitted the sun. With the sun, they do track
 The sun matters, it’s included in scientists calculations
Invalid rebuttal to say that the climate is always changing
 Everyone agrees it’s changing, the issue is the rate
CO2 increases cloud formations, which increases heat retention
 Sounds logical, but debate exists, might not be correct
Presentation of arguments by both skeptics and believers
Climate models seem closer to BS than science
 The basic argument seems pretty solid, but not the models
Starts at 30:00. IIMHO some of his political theories are whack, but I like the idea of training Pointer dogs to patrol the Southern border and bark at strangers. The bark would turn on a transponder and broadcast a location and azimuth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4
When the government say we will take your money, hold on to it for a little while then give it right back and everything will get better. It's a trap.
So what do you think of AOC in Congress asking for a Green New Deal and the end of infernal combustion?
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:26 AM   #4506 (permalink)
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The green deal is another attempt to pass cap and tax that failed to pass in 2008 when the Democrats had the super majority.
I don't know why they even bother, have they seen the numbers in the senate or the guy in the white house. Or maybe these new congress members are idiots and don't understand how the government works.
Otherwise it's a typical stupid liberal agenda, force the end of the internal combustion engine and give no viable solution to replace it.
If you look at how it works all they do is punish and penalize the consumer, that's it, thats their great plan and it's crap. It does almost nothing to reduce CO2 production.
End the internal combustion engine? Sure, sounds good great right, well it doesn't actually solve any problems.
If we woke up tomorrow and every passenger vehicle magically turned into an electric vehicle over night that would only reduce CO2 production by about 10% because most of our electric power comes from coal and natural gas.
The new green deal is a fake, feel good, non-solution.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:03 AM   #4507 (permalink)
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Did I post the Jeremy Rifkin lecture here yet? Watch it on 1.5 speed to save time. He outlines the infrastrucure shifts needed worldwide for a new, more efficient society.
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https://youtu.be/QX3M8Ka9vUA
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Very optimistic and inspiring. But he only briefly alluded to the relationship of energy and economy by stating that a crash is coming when oil prices go over $120 and skipped past it.
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I agree that we need to move to an internet of things sharing economy world wide. But it takes energy to make the transition so we need to stop all superfluous human activities and focus our remaining fossil fuel wealth to get as much done as possible before oil starts to slip away. It will leave us before we are ready to leave it. Along with many other peaking non renewable resources.
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He also (deliberately?) leaves out any concept of scale and density of rebuildable solar and wind compared to the amount of energy we are using now.
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So I agree we should strive for his vision with full dedication of remaining resources but also be ready with a simpler "Plan B" for the times when the techno solution falters over the inevitable speed bumps.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:56 AM   #4508 (permalink)
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A lot opf people imagine that it could be possible to harvest energy from the power of magnets. But they usually don't know thermodynamics. They think,it would be possible to create a perpetual motion machine.
After all such people see the power of magnets as someting pulling or pushing someting, like gravity pushs. But even gravity needs differential of potential to allow harvest energy, otherwise we would have generator to harvest it.

The most absurd example of ignorance about thermodynamics came in the shape of a TV News about a car moved by air, compressed air engine. The car came with a home compressor to someone be able to compress the tanks in home. In the end of the reportage the narrator said :

https://youtu.be/ztFDqcu8oJ4?t=155



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Wouldn't it simply be a matter of the strength of the magnetic field (flux) capable with s superconducter?

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Old 01-13-2019, 01:56 PM   #4509 (permalink)
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I don't know why they even bother, have they seen the numbers in the senate or the guy in the white house. Or maybe these new congress members are idiots and don't understand how the government works.
There's at least the one. Maybe more.

My favorite example is abolishing the Electoral College. "Times change. The Founding Fathers were silly geese." Fact is the Electoral College is there because the Founding Fathers saw them coming.

Good luck getting 3/4 of the States governors to ratify that.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:04 PM   #4510 (permalink)
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If you go to a straight popular vote determination, L.A. county has more votes than these entire states each have.
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