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Old 03-30-2019, 07:10 PM   #5501 (permalink)
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:19 AM   #5502 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
A coal-fired power plant requires 3.21847 times more Btus into the boiler than it gets out of the generator.
Yes. Total primary energy consumption is rated as thermal energy produced. So coal and nuclear produce about 1/3 of that into usable electricity. The heat would also be usable such as the new coal plant in Germany which will supply district heat to 60,000 homes. Gas plants are 50% and could also start using the waste heat since they can be built close in to cities.
.
So if you multiply wind and solar by 3 you can say that the current levels of wind in the USA could conceivably replace 7% of energy and solar could replace .66%.
.
But there are also other challenges involved with mass electrification of tasks that we currently use liquid fuel for ie farming, mining, transportation. We would also need Gigatons of batteries. Which are not very energy dense.
 
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:04 PM   #5503 (permalink)
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In a way, diesel and unleaded gas that we use in ours cars is what is leftover from refining oil and taking out all the other products we rely on just as much as motor fuel. What saved the whales wasn't any Greenpeace campaign but the discovery ground petroleum products were just as good, more plentiful, and easier to produce. No need to kill whales. So if we don't produce any oil what about rubber, asphalt, plastics, modern fabrics, etc. Propane and fuel oil has to go too. Right now it's a perfect balance, if you remove just the transportation portion you still have to drill and refine just as much oil to provide the other products. You just end up with a lake of unused gasoline and the price of everything else rising to cover the waste gasoline.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:02 PM   #5504 (permalink)
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Quote:
There [sic] objective is to separate the mixture into several fractions like naphtha, kerosene, diesel and gas oil.
There is some leeway in the proportions obtained.

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Old 04-03-2019, 11:28 AM   #5505 (permalink)
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Idaho's 2 cents on power generation

Idaho Power and Jackpot Holdings agreed on a 20 year deal construct a 120 MW solar plant to supply Idaho Power at $0,02175 per kWh...!
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/03...-price-record/

If that's possible, why does this not happen everywhere?
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:34 AM   #5506 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Idaho Power and Jackpot Holdings agreed on a 20 year deal construct a 120 MW solar plant to supply Idaho Power at $0,02175 per kWh...!
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/03...-price-record/

If that's possible, why does this not happen everywhere?
Includes Federal $0.03/ kWh feed in bonus in the US.
 
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:27 PM   #5507 (permalink)
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... which makes it more expensive than other electricity in the region. The company I was working for was the largest utilities consumer in every category for the county, and their cost for electricity was ~4 cents per kWh, plus demand charge.

Hope it works out for Idaho, in that they don't see rate hikes.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:19 PM   #5508 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Idaho Power and Jackpot Holdings agreed on a 20 year deal construct a 120 MW solar plant to supply Idaho Power at $0,02175 per kWh...!
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/03...-price-record/

If that's possible, why does this not happen everywhere?
Probability because it doesn't work at night.
Otherwise it's the obvious choice.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:20 PM   #5509 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
... which makes it more expensive than other electricity in the region. The company I was working for was the largest utilities consumer in every category for the county, and their cost for electricity was ~4 cents per kWh, plus demand charge.

Hope it works out for Idaho, in that they don't see rate hikes.
No where that has had a large shift towards solar has seen lower rates.
At least with wind, rates seem to stay the same most of the time.
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:25 PM   #5510 (permalink)
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consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Yes. Total primary energy consumption is rated as thermal energy produced. So coal and nuclear produce about 1/3 of that into usable electricity. The heat would also be usable such as the new coal plant in Germany which will supply district heat to 60,000 homes. Gas plants are 50% and could also start using the waste heat since they can be built close in to cities.
.
So if you multiply wind and solar by 3 you can say that the current levels of wind in the USA could conceivably replace 7% of energy and solar could replace .66%.
.
But there are also other challenges involved with mass electrification of tasks that we currently use liquid fuel for ie farming, mining, transportation. We would also need Gigatons of batteries. Which are not very energy dense.
If we ignore climate change,and Coal's CO2,and Natural gas' Methane leakage with hydro-fracking.plus, 'expect' that there would be no change to energy consumption levels,then I'm all in with any synergies associated with boot-strapping all forms of waste-heat recovery.
Lithium Bromide absorption refrigeration cycles can also use low-grade 200-degree F rejected heat for urban-scale chilled water-based air conditioning/dehumidification/food preservation/cool-pool load sharing etc..
Imagine Phoenix,Arizona,and the refrigeration potential lost all summer,with the 3-nuclear units, 50-miles west at Palo Verde.No telling how many millions of tons of refrigeration potential is lost 24-7.
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*Personally,I don't see why mineral extraction can't be completely electrified.Certainly,it would be 'different,'but horsepower is horsepower,whether derived from fossil-fuel,or an electrical umbilical cord.
*The power shovels could be electrified off of an 'extension cord.'
*The Leibherr and Caterpillar loaders could be be BEVs.
*The conveyors which load the rail cars could all be electric.They probably already are,just now, hooked to an onsite Caterpillar Diesel Gen set.
*All our freight locomotives are already electric.A third-rail,or catenary line could hook them up with renewable 3-phase power.Ditch the diesel engine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I farmed, ranched, and worked in the oilfield for 6-months in 1975.Nothing we did could not have been done with electricity.Tilling,planting,harvesting,hauling cattle to auction,baling.
A neighbor retired after a career on offshore drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico.Everything on the drilling platform was electric powered,except the Caterpillar generators.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*We're staring down the barrel of electric 18-wheelers right now.
*Electric urban buses are already in service.
*All passenger trains can be all-electric.
*All rail freight can be electrified.
*When high-speed rail goes in,short-haul commuter air travel disappears,negating the need for billions of gallons/year JET-A , it's CO2 and killer fine particulates.
*After 2025 their won't be any cost advantage for piston cars or trucks.
*Oceanic cargo vessels could be fuel-cell powered.
*Cruise ships ditto.
*Air freight and passenger service is an issue.So far,Biofuels are the only thing promoted heavily.
*There are some electric aircraft.In very nascent/embrionic form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grid storage is a work in progress.
We've already visited:
*Lead peroxide
*Nickel cadmium
*Nickel -metal hydride
*Nickel-zinc
*Zinc-air
*Zinc-chlorine
*Sodium-sulfur
*Aluminum-air
*Lithium-iron sulfide
*Lithium-ion
*Hydrogen fuel cell
All these may yet see applications in stationary,grid-scale storage capabilities.Since size and weight are less an issue.
The Chinese are sorting this out right now.

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