The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[redneck]

[Xist]

Nice comic. NeilBlanchard described that as "Global Weirdness" here: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post557407

You look at the post number and draw your own conclusions.

[oil pan 4]

They can spin all day about how global warming causes warmer and colder winters or an abundance and lack of tropical storms but none of the man made global warming true believers ever came up with a good reason why groups like noaa and the ipcc keep getting caught faking temperature data.
I guess I wouldn't want to try and explain that either.

[redpoint5]

Meeting certain unrealistic and unreasonable CO2 targets is also pointless, as the "benefit" is given in terms of delaying global warming by x number of years. If the temperature change is inevitable, why spend enormous amounts of time and money to merely delay it? Had humans never discovered fossil fuels, we'd still be globally warming, only at a reduced rate. Perhaps the seas would have only risen 7" over the last 100 years instead of 8" due to the extra boost from fossil fuel consumption.

I agree that resource depletion is of great concern, but then as fuel becomes expensive, alternatives will be developed. Our aversion to nuclear power will eventually be overcome by our greater aversion to 0.60/kWh electricity.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I agree that resource depletion is of great concern, but then as fuel becomes expensive, alternatives will be developed. Our aversion to nuclear power will eventually be overcome by our greater aversion to 0.60/kWh electricity.

The problem is that it takes affordable energy and liquid fuel to build big things out of concrete like reactors. Or even to clear land for more efficient home units in temperate climates and to build solar and wind installations and new alt energy factories and mine battery materials. If we wait until fossil energy pricing forces us to consider replacing it, it will be too expensive and fully committed to spinning plates to use to replace it. Energy trap.
.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/
.
And.
.
Why do we think this fossil fuel is totally ours to just completely exhaust as if current market forces are the only consideration. What about them. It would nice to have a little left for important uses such as medical, pharma, paint, plastics, in 1,000 years.
.
We need to wake up now. Look down the road 200 years. And use our cleverness and remaining energy surplus and focus to aim for something that will work for them in a time after fossil fuel.

[johnny77]

Originally Posted by sendler

The problem is that it takes affordable energy and liquid fuel to build big things out of concrete like reactors. Or even to clear land for more efficient home units in temperate climates and to build solar and wind installations and new alt energy factories and mine battery materials. If we wait until fossil energy pricing forces us to consider replacing it, it will be too expensive and fully committed to spinning plates to use to replace it. Energy trap.
.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/
.
And.
.
Why do we think this fossil fuel is totally ours to just completely exhaust as if current market forces are the only consideration. What about them. It would nice to have a little left for important uses such as medical, pharma, paint, plastics, in 1,000 years.
.
We need to wake up now. Look down the road 200 years. And use our cleverness and remaining energy surplus and focus to aim for something that will work for them in a time after fossil fuel.

If it was to run out would that not force innovations on a unprecedented level. It might even force a true effective result in the US government, nah.

[oil pan 4]

If it were real they wouldn't be working so hard, organizing and conspiring to fake it.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sendler

The problem is that it takes affordable energy and liquid fuel to build big things out of concrete like reactors. Or even to clear land for more efficient home units in temperate climates and to build solar and wind installations and new alt energy factories and mine battery materials. If we wait until fossil energy pricing forces us to consider replacing it, it will be too expensive and fully committed to spinning plates to use to replace it. Energy trap.
.
https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/the-energy-trap/
.
And.
.
Why do we think this fossil fuel is totally ours to just completely exhaust as if current market forces are the only consideration. What about them. It would nice to have a little left for important uses such as medical, pharma, paint, plastics, in 1,000 years.
.
We need to wake up now. Look down the road 200 years. And use our cleverness and remaining energy surplus and focus to aim for something that will work for them in a time after fossil fuel.

I've read and enjoyed the link above before. I think we're in agreement about most things except for the rate of fossil fuel depletion. As I've said before, there is no such thing as running out of fossil fuels; only fossil fuels that become more expensive to extract. As they become more expensive, we'll transition away from them in areas that consume large quantities, such as electricity generation, heat, and transportation. We will ease demand as supply becomes more difficult.

There will be peak oil, it will just be more gradual, and won't cripple society as the doomsday profits predict.

[freebeard]

As I've said before, there is no such thing as running out of fossil fuels; only fossil fuels that become more expensive to extract.

Once demand slackens, petroleum will eventually be replenished from deep, hot abiotic sources.

[oil pan 4]

I time traveled back to 2007 for about an hour (I searched and read some old forum posts).
Remember how I said man made global warming is mass hysteria, a few pages back.
Go back and poke around circa 2007 to 2010, the more gullible among us were loosing there freaking minds over this.
It's actually kind of funny.