The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

I think we can discuss ideas as long as they are articulated thoughts rather than tribal diatribes (like my recent communist bullshine comment).

This morning Styxhexenhammer talked about soph (aka LT Corbis). One of my favorite Youtubers, and proof that the youngest generation is not buying the Left at all. Her post today is Be Not Afraid, look for it there, it's a little spicy for even The Lounge. An articulated diatribe.

I'm willing to discuss "destroying other people's countries" in a thoughtful manner, but we'd need to talk about specific incidents rather than a broad notion of destruction of other countries.

Little boxes made of ticky-tacky:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH_94v67upo

He ends with a Bucky Fuller quote.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Seems to me,that the market is out there working it's magic.

The market is pushing constant exponential growth on a finite planet. It pays next to nothing to the future for the nonrenewable resources we are consuming. It has pushed Ford and Chevy to discontinue the Focus, Fiesta, and Cruze in favor of SUV's. Not that 100 million new Fiesta's per year or Chevy Bolt's for that matter, makes any sustainable sense either. It pushes us to build giant, single family homes with huge heating bills and private pools and drive 100 miles round trip every day alone in an SUV to a "job" that produces nothing but paperwork. It pays movie stars and athletes 100's of millions of dollars and no longer functions for labor to take a fair piece of the social surplus since there is an over supply, globalization, and automation allowing the owners of production to horde all of the profits. ect.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I think we can discuss ideas as long as they are articulated thoughts rather than tribal diatribes (like my recent communist bullshine comment). I'm willing to discuss "destroying other people's countries" in a thoughtful manner, but we'd need to talk about specific incidents rather than a broad notion of destruction of other countries.

thousands of heat-related agricultural worker deaths,and 90% heat-related loss of coffee crop in El Salvador.Unemployment.Refugees.
It's gonna be a touchy subject if we really get into it.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by sendler

The market is pushing constant exponential growth on a finite planet. It pays next to nothing to the future for the nonrenewable resources we are consuming. It has pushed Ford and Chevy to discontinue the Focus, Fiesta, and Cruze in favor of SUV's. Not that 100 million new Fiesta's per year or Chevy Bolt's for that matter, makes any sustainable sense either. It pushes us to build giant, single family homes with huge heating bills and private pools and drive 100 miles alone in an SUV to a "job" that produces nothing but paperwork. It pays movie stars and athletes 100's of millions of dollars and no longer functions for labor to take a fair piece of the social surplus since there is an over supply, globalization, and automation allowing the owners of production to horde all of the profits. ect.

In spite of all that,we're also seeing carbon-free transportation,a growing charging infrastructure,carbon-free energy,grid-scale power storage,net-zero energy homes,office buildings.We've got a shot at going without metals and all the attendant entropy associated with them.
We could educate people for the first time.We could incentivize good behavior
and dis-incentivize not- so- good behavior.
Armed with adequate classroom skills,consumers could parry blows from Madison Avenue with intellectual jiu jitsu.
I'm edging on topics which will inflame some members.It's what is.

[redpoint5]

Our problems never were much to do with education, but rather human nature. That isn't easily educated out. Our underlying behavior resides on hardware that cannot be modified without genetic engineering or selective breeding. The software that modifies the underlying hard-coded behavior is very difficult to manipulate.

That's what I assume freebeard and Bucky were on about; that you can't (successfully) fight human nature, you have to accommodate it.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Our problems never were much to do with education, but rather human nature. That isn't easily educated out. Our underlying behavior resides on hardware that cannot be modified without genetic engineering or selective breeding. The software that modifies the underlying hard-coded behavior is very difficult to manipulate.

That's what I assume freebeard and Bucky were on about; that you can't (successfully) fight human nature, you have to accommodate it.

This is half of what Hagens is telling us. We don't do things because they are smart. We do things that give us the same feel good brain chemicals that were the "fittest" for survival for a million years of evolution when we were driven to survive as hunter/ gatherers. Today these "feelings" are hijacked (intentionally) to encourage us to consume much more than we need in order to be happy and healthy. The only way forward is for everyone to learn about metacognition. To think about the way our brains work. And truly become sapient. We were born to shop since the wanting is much stronger than the having.

[freebeard]

We could educate people for the first time.We could incentivize good behavior
and dis-incentivize not- so- good behavior.
Armed with adequate classroom skills,consumers could parry blows from Madison Avenue with intellectual jiu jitsu.
I'm edging on topics which will inflame some members.It's what is.

Egging on? Verging on? Irrelevancies in bold.

I recommended Be Not Afraid because I thought redpoint5 would enjoy it, you might have more problems with soph. A gamer girl mouth on a Gidget body. NSFW language, the mods can spank if they must but here it is for your convenience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdaUDeAGIck

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Our problems never were much to do with education, but rather human nature. That isn't easily educated out. Our underlying behavior resides on hardware that cannot be modified without genetic engineering or selective breeding. The software that modifies the underlying hard-coded behavior is very difficult to manipulate.

That's what I assume freebeard and Bucky were on about; that you can't (successfully) fight human nature, you have to accommodate it.

It's my opinion that the mysteries of man are well understood and can be taken advantage of by those who are in command of this information.Like Ivy Lee was to John D. Rockefeller and Adolf Hitler.He trained both.
You get a taste of it in boot camp,basic training,multi-level marketing seminars,etc..Motion pictures and television are enough for many.
Since the US has no culture,nor right of passage into adulthood,it's anyone's guess what it is to be a man or woman in America,and there are predators at the waiting,ready to deliver you to their way of thinking.It's tribal.It's obviously quite easy! We evolved for this.And it can be taken advantage of.That's what advertising is for.
And they'll loan you money,at usury, to buy the very rope you'll hang yourself with.They're sociopaths.And it's protected by law.And dates to before Sumer,and the written word.
Education would be your only defense against this,but see if you can find Vance Packard in any classroom.Or 'Crystalizing Public Opinion' by Edward Bernays.'The Prince' by Machiavelli.'Art of War,by Sun Tsu.'
We're just 'copper-tops'(The Matrix),only here to feed our life force into the machine of the client who finances the election campaign of their government patron (Rome:Marcus Aurelias,Cornelius Sulla)
Live by emotion,not thinking. Get knocked-up young,get into debt,and stay in debt,'til you're used up,and no energy left.Spend your entire estate to the healthcare industry in the last 120-days of your life, having given everything to Caesar and his cronies.
Sure,you can get a buzz,over indulge,with endless hedonic adaptation and its momentary dopamine release.Baskin-Robbins 31-Flavors of pre aproved,mass-produced lifestyles to choose between,for your 'individualism.'
We have only a faint patina of 'civilization' separating us from the rest of the animal kingdom,and watch the animal come out when you even remotely threaten the income of a pack member who's in debt.Shylock is waiting to exact his pound of flesh.This is driving the whole climate debate.Fear of loss,by the haves,who don't want to lose out to the have-nots.
I agree about the hard wiring.That's the triune,reptilian brain.Fight or flight.Us against 'them.' Tribal.At the very bottom of Mazlo's hierarchy of needs.Evolutionary.That's where they want to keep you,'cause if you ever learn to think,they're in trouble.You might shine some light into a dark corner they'd rather not have illuminated.
Just stay ignorant.Let your hormones rule you.Don't ask questions.Keep your place.If you don't stand out,you won't get hammered down.You won't be laughed at.Humiliated.Expelled.You want to be in the 'in-crowd'.They go where the 'in-crowd' goes. Protect the pack.Mark your territory.Watch your perimeter.Demand submission from any interloper who might stray into your turf.
You don't fight human behavior.But you realize that people are malleable.I just watched the President of a North Carolina Ku Klux Klan chapter vote for school integration in his own hometown the other night.(recent movie:,'Best of Enemies',true U.S.history,from 1971).He flipped in 14-days,after sleeping with the enemy.That's remarkable behavioral plasticity!

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by sendler

This is half of what Hagens is telling us. We don't do things because they are smart. We do things that give us the same feel good brain chemicals that were the "fittest" for survival for a million years of evolution when we were driven to survive as hunter/ gatherers. Today these "feelings" are hijacked (intentionally) to encourage us to consume much more than we need in order to be happy and healthy. The only way forward is for everyone to learn about metacognition. To think about the way our brains work. And truly become sapient. We were born to shop since the wanting is much stronger than the having.

Yes,take advantage of every weakness.Fear of loss works best.
'Brown shoes don't make it!' Zappa
The shopping has replaced the 'hunt.'
The purchase is the 'kill.'
You go back to the cave an retell the story.You become legend.Immortality.A god among men!
To be worshipped by all available females.
Shelter,sustenance,security....................... .all the way up to self-actualization.
Strut around like a peacock,even though you teeter on the edge of bankruptcy.Leverage your credit it out to lunar orbit.Image is everything! Image is more important than substance.See you at the bottom!
I have high friends in places.

[freebeard]

I have high friends in places.

it's starting to show.