The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Maybe there's a case to be made for local laws requiring a certain type of bag that every business must use (equal playing field) because protection of the commons is the role of government. Profit is the role of business. If business does not attend to profit, they don't exist, we don't get our goods, and people have no jobs.

You just described Oregon's disposable plastic bag ban. Stores must use paper bags (the timber industry likes this) and charge 5 cents each.



Disposable items are an interesting trade-off. If you care about CO2 and energy use we should use plastic bags and Styrofoam cups and take-out containers. The use much much less energy to make but they don't break down and basically pollute the environment forever.

On the other hand paper cups and bags use more energy to make but break down quickly and come from renewable resources. If you care about water and ground pollution paper is the way to go.

Of course that is a false choice. You can also just stop using one-time use products.

That makes me think of Starbucks and their straw "ban". They decide to get rid of straws and then design a new plastic sippy cup lid that uses more plastic than the straw and old lid combined. Meanwhile they have paper cups and thin plastic lids for their hot beverages. Why do they put cold drinks in a plastic cup at all? Why not use the paper (lined with thin plastic) cups for all beverages?

[oil pan 4]

How about paper for the coast and plastic inland.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by JSH

You just described Oregon's disposable plastic bag ban. Stores must use paper bags (the timber industry likes this) and charge 5 cents each.

The Winco down the street from me has paper at 5¢ and plastic at 10 or 15¢. I've decided it's just the cost of doing business to not reuse them.

For the ones I don't find a second use for of course.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

You just described Oregon's disposable plastic bag ban. Stores must use paper bags (the timber industry likes this) and charge 5 cents each.

I might be coming around on this. My first reaction is always anger, then denial, then... what are the emotional progression steps?

Anyhow, I was often using reusable bags before the ban, but always use them now that you get a credit for them, or a penalty for a disposable bag. I respond to financial incentives/penalties.

I still think the whole thing is a solution in search of a problem, especially in Oregon.

[jjackstone]

Since my recumbent trike is my main source of transportation, I have used my panniers as grocery bags for years. So, we don't need no stinking plastic and we don't need no stinking paper. Fortunately I live close enough to stores that I am able to ride to most of them for my grocery needs.
JJ

[oil pan 4]

It looks like the new data, with solar forcing, volcanic activity properly included the old climate models for the most likely scenarios are about 3 times more dire than they need to be.
They can make the new models look like the old ones when they don't include solar and volcanic forcing, no surprise there.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

It looks like the new data, with solar forcing, volcanic activity properly included the old climate models for the most likely scenarios are about 3 times more dire than they need to be.
They can make the new models look like the old ones when they don't include solar and volcanic forcing, no surprise there.

Just like the COVID-19 models without mitigation scenarios included.

[aerohead]

Glaciologists are now observing instability at Denman Glacier/Aurora Subglacial Basin,which Denman 'corks'.If Denman goes,warm ocean water will flood into the deepest continental point on Earth,exposing another 5-feet sea level rise potential,on top of 10-feet already posed by Pine Island and Thwaites, both presently disintegrating.

[aerohead]

Without a single word from FOX,NBC,ABC,CBS,or PBS,we've already had a CAT-5 Tropical Cyclone Harold in 2020,fourth strongest on record for the South Pacific,and an overall 'above average' hurricane season predicted.
Sure am happy for all that global cooling and frigid tropical waters taking the punch out of storms.
Miami public schools are adding 'fish' to their foreign language curriculum,in anticipation of 'new neighbors.'

[aerohead]

The Guardian announced an outright ban on fossil-fuel advertising,in service to the emerging climate crisis ,March 31,2020,the first major news agency to do so.
Meanwhile,Walt Disney Company,of which Mary Barra of General Motors Corporation sits on the Disney Board of Directors,directs their Disney-owned ABC television viewers towards GM advertisements for full-size SUVs and pickup trucks.Secret internal memos reveal though,that Disney has dispatched Tinkerbell to the poles to broadcast magic fairy dust from her wand, to mitigate the effects of all those full-size GM tailpipes.
GM announced that its GM Defense LLC' Infantry Squad Vehicle will share parallel production for US housewives whom formerly owned HUMMER products.Husbands will be offered up-armoured versions.Soviet Premier Putin and the Saudi Royal Family applaud the move,as these products will certainly stabilize crude oil prices at high levels.