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Old 08-29-2014, 12:20 AM   #11 (permalink)
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When I owned a Toy the local dealer had this thing "free oil changes" free priorities for life. It came with a bunch of stuff including life time engine warranty. Just had to get the car service on their time line which was more frequent than the user or service manual suggested.

Oh, BTW, the visit for the "free" oil change was 49.95 before taxes and fees. THey did a bunch of other stuff, but not charged for oil change. I usually ate a lot of donuts, diet soda and took a rental car for a spin.

One day I brought my car in for service and took a rental. I came to drop off the rental 4 hours later and someone commented it had 300 miles on the ODO.

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Part of the sludge issue is increased emissions regulations, but part of it, for Toyota at least, is simply because people don't change their oil at the proper time.

There's a big difference between "severe" service and "normal" service. A lot of sludge-sufferers were going for the longer 7,500 mi oil change interval, but did mostly short trips and trips in traffic... which are, yes... SEVERE service. I know a guy who got sludge from missing one too many oil changes.

Follow the shorter "severe" service interval and you have no problems.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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One could say the stealership was being evil, lying, etc.

I thought next Toy I purchase from that chain of dealers I would opt out of their program and follow the service or user manual recommendations.
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Actually the lawsuit revealed that the engine ran too hot. Design flaw..... which is okay but Toyota should not have voided warranties. They should have said, "Yeah we made a mistake," but roughly a decade passed before they finally admitted it. Piss-poor customer service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
I might be reading that wrong, but it doesn't sound like Toyota told its customers to stick it
Well that's exactly what Toyota did from 1998 through 2006. Many many customers had their engine warranties Voided & they were forced to buy a whole new engine ($7000 cost) with their own money. That's ridiculous since some of the engines were as young as 20,000 miles (and had been serviced routinely by the dealer).

The ONLY reason Toyota changed its mind is because it found itself sued by ~20 different States in the class action lawsuit. The governments got fedup with how Toyota was selling new cars/trucks that died prematurely & then voiding the warranty (and leaving customers with 2-3 year old cars that were broken).

More recently Toyota found itself FINED by the U.S. government for how it failed to honor warranties (or forthrightly answer safety questions from the FTC).

LOL

Last edited by theaveng; 08-29-2014 at 04:32 AM..
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The engine DID run too hot... again... because of changes made to meet emissions. But in normal use, it shouldn't have been a problem. It's a combination of the heat, long service intervals and missed intervals that made it an issue.

I know several people who've had varnish and sludge issues with the ZZ engines.

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Of course, they should have honored warranties for those who followed their recommended intervals. There's no argument there.

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Try again.

My girlfriend is a Mazda. I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion at hand, either. Toyota must be pretty pissed at me, at this point, as I've put them in last place in the last three comparo tests I've written for the magazine.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:45 AM   #16 (permalink)
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There is no such thing as a "perfect" car. For example, I like Chevy for its engines, but their interior trims are not so good as they used to be until early 2000s.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:01 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
The engine DID run too hot... again... because of changes made to meet emissions. But in normal use, it shouldn't have been a problem. It's a combination of the heat, long service intervals and missed intervals that made it an issue.

I know several people who've had varnish and sludge issues with the ZZ engines.

Of course, they should have honored warranties for those who followed their recommended intervals. There's no argument there.
What is "normal use"? Does one live in the city or in a rural area? That makes a big difference between whether the vehicle is subject to severe use or mild use in daily driving.

They don't tell you this in the owner's manual.

Besides which, no manufacturer wants you to keep your car for any longer than the warranty period. The product is supposed to last for only that long, so that they can then sell you another one, the sooner the better. That's the way the game is played. Even if the car is perfect and has no design flaws, they hope you will become tired of it and throw it away (AKA trade it in) and buy a new one - for one of the same brand, of course.

C'mon, be a sport. Play the game by their rules. It benefits the world economy.

Now ask yourself, before you buy anything again - how does it benefit YOU?
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Maybe off-topic, but I'm a bit confused about this 'sludging' thing. It's supposed to be from the engine running at high temperatures, no? But a water-cooled engine can't get much above boiling (unless maybe some of the oil is going through a turbo?), while air-cooled engines used in airplanes car run oil temps at 245 F (Lycoming's recommendation for continuous use) or higher.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
Now ask yourself, before you buy anything again - how does it benefit YOU?
It doesn't. I don't buy new cars.

The big problem for car manufacturers is they have to build a car to last beyond the warranty. Because people are always going to abuse them, misuse them and ignore maintenance. If they build the cars to last exactly up to the end of the warranty, you'd have a huge percentage of failures before the end of the warranty.

So they have to overbuild them a bit... but they can't overbuild too much, otherwise the car would cost too much.

Still... they've overbuilt enough of them to a high enough degree that they're stuck competing with their own secondhands (the African problem comes to mind... where cheap secondhand Japanese imports hurt sales of economy cars). Those that don't overbuild them enough lose customers in the long run. (ref: Domestic manufacturers)

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Yeah, the manufacturers are screwing you over, but there's a limit to how much they can screw you over and still remain profitable... just as there's a limit to how much they can overdeliver on quality and still remain profitable.

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What I feel bad about is that enviornmental regulations are causing the price of brand new cars to go up and longevity to go down. Regulations on zinc in motor oil combined with ever thinner motor oils and tighter tolerances (with looser, lower friction piston rings) plus more environmentally friendly bearings mean that modern engines might not last anywhere near as long as older motors. Especially considering valve deposit issues with direct injection and fuel system problems that result from the high pressures.

And then you get to dual-mass flywheels, dual-clutch transmissions and other such unnecessary complications.

If I were to buy a car, nowadays, it would be something like the Mirage. Cheap, standard fuel injection system, but engine optimized perfectly for economy.

No turbo. No direct injection. No high compression. No dual mass flywheel or dual-clutch transmission. No active engine mounts. Just four wheels, a motor and a transmission.

Last edited by niky; 08-30-2014 at 03:07 AM..
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Some please explain who pays for the commercials siting longevity of particular models...f150 truck, subura car etc.
kinda contrary to the theme of mean old bad old car companies...
I thought all cars were designed to desinegrate one day after the warrantee expired....

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