DIY Solutions to Honda Hybrid Battery Problems (Insight, Civic, IMA)

[ncdave4life]

Sucre, thank you for your company web site URL, which I couldn't find. I've corrected my post accordingly.

However, your complaints here about Eli and Perry are misplaced. They have not been unfair to you.

Originally Posted by Sucre

I remember Eli tested them under 100A discharge, that is only 2-4C?

As I recall, the KingKong cell could not be discharged at 100A, and failed completely at 30A. To be reliable in a Honda Insight HEV, it must be able to handle 3x that much current, over and over, for years.

Originally Posted by Sucre

although the internal construction of our cell need improved, but that doesn't mean our cell support only 2-4C. It is unfair.

He didn't say it only supported 2-4C, he said it "can put out 10Ah, but only at 2-4C," which is actually generous: 4C for a 10Ah cell is 40A for 15 minutes, and the KingKong cells cannot do that.

But even that would be inadequate for Honda HEV use. They must be able to frequently discharge at nearly 100A for short periods of time, without harm to the batteries.

Just last month, on 1/4/2013 you admitted that KingKong batteries were inadequate for HEV use, and on 1/6/2013 you pledged that KingKong would not sell their sticks until they get the problems fixed.

If you now (already!) have a dramatically improved battery cell, which can be reliably charged at 45A and discharged at 100A, and which has an internal resistance of at most 1.3 mΩ per cell (under 8 mΩ per 6-cell battery stick), then please tell us about it, and either offer to give one of your new battery sticks to one or two of the experts here for testing, or else at least provide real test data like Eli's.

Otherwise, you are trying to sell a product which is plainly unsuitable for Honda HEV use, and that is both unwise and unethical.

[ncdave4life]

Originally Posted by perryjack

so you see, that is the result of a very simple forum discussion.
I will not reply to this thread again, why should I? I am here to collect information and doing business only, not to fight.
Before I leave, I can tell you, I am not Eli and I have NEVER seen Eli before.

ok, stop here.

Thank you, PerryJack, for the information you have provided! Please don't be bothered by Sucre's complaints, and please do tell us which vendor Jeff bought the bad battery from, when you find out.

[ncdave4life]

Eli, are you still here?

Did you see these questions?

Originally Posted by ncdave4life

Trying to understand that screencap, Eli...

...[snip]...

Is that about right?

...[snip]...

What software & hardware is this tester? Is it a commercial product?

...[snip]...

BTW, what's the shipping charge to NC for that DIY kit?

[Sucre]

Originally Posted by ncdave4life

Sucre, thank you for your company web site URL, which I couldn't find. I've corrected my post accordingly.

However, your complaints here about Eli and Perry are misplaced. They have not been unfair to you.



As I recall, the KingKong cell could not be discharged at 100A, and failed completely at 30A. To be reliable in a Honda Insight HEV, it must be able to handle 3x that much current, over and over, for years.



He didn't say it only supported 2-4C, he said it "can put out 10Ah, but only at 2-4C," which is actually generous: 4C for a 10Ah cell is 40A for 15 minutes, and the KingKong cells cannot do that.

But even that would be inadequate for Honda HEV use. They must be able to frequently discharge at nearly 100A for short periods of time, without harm to the batteries.

Just last month, on 1/4/2013 you admitted that KingKong batteries were inadequate for HEV use, and on 1/6/2013 you pledged that KingKong would not sell their sticks until they get the problems fixed.

If you now (already!) have a dramatically improved battery cell, which can be reliably charged at 45A and discharged at 100A, and which has an internal resistance of at most 1.3 mΩ per cell (under 8 mΩ per 6-cell battery stick), then please tell us about it, and either offer to give one of your new battery sticks to one or two of the experts here for testing, or else at least provide real test data like Eli's.

Otherwise, you are trying to sell a product which is plainly unsuitable for Honda HEV use, and that is both unwise and unethical.

1.You said our cell failed completely at 30A, who told you this? did you have test data for our cell? Till now, only Eli tested our D 10000mah cell, you check the test data on the Insightcentral forum, his point is our cell IR is too high, not suitable for hybrid use.
2.Mike have never tested our cell, he just disassmebled our cell, he said our cell internal instruction is unsuitable for hybrid battery, that is his point.
3.I know exactly the basic requiremnet for hybrid battery use, 100A discharge and 50 charge rate are basic, sometimes the car draw 120A or 150A discharge. and the IR is also crucial, for the stock cell, IR is 2mΩ， lower than 2mΩ is preferably, the lower the better.
4.I admited that our cell is inadequate for hybrid car use, but I didn't said our stick couldnot hold 100A discharge and 50A charge rate, what we gonna improve is the interanl construction to ensure a lower IR as well as the welding, that is the point.
5.New sticks will be ready in the middle of March, probably I will send a new stick to the expert here to test, but I will Never sent it to Eli.

[perryjack]

Jeff is in Mexico searching car components supply for his company. I have contacted him but he forgot the name, have to find out after back to USA.
In fact, in China you can set up a company in one month. You can even "book" a sizable company to do business and share the profit. Sample from one supplier, mass production products can be from another cheaper supplier. Warranty don't help you much as you are difficult to get them.
Some Chinese are angry with negative comments, willing people to respect the them, but never considering how they have done.
There are a lot of good Chinese suppliers, of course. I suggest you simply test them for quality in small quantity, take enough time to run them on road and grow step by step.

[perryjack]

OK, King Kong is good, Yabo is Good, China is wonderful.

So everyone happy now?

[microhybrid]

Originally Posted by perryjack

Jeff is in Mexico searching car components supply for his company. I have contacted him but he forgot the name, have to find out after back to USA.
In fact, in China you can set up a company in one month. You can even "book" a sizable company to do business and share the profit. Sample from one supplier, mass production products can be from another cheaper supplier. Warranty don't help you much as you are difficult to get them.
Some Chinese are angry with negative comments, willing people to respect the them, but never considering how they have done.
There are a lot of good Chinese suppliers, of course. I suggest you simply test them for quality in small quantity, take enough time to run them on road and grow step by step.

One of our customer have also tested Kingkong's battery before with no good result, but Sucre promised to improve the quality soon, i think that is good for all end-users here, everyone should be happy with that for a alternative choice rather than unhappy, to improve battery cell really time comsuming so what we could do is be patience and waiting for the testing result.

Perry's comment is reasonable, it is true there is a still long way to go for "made in China" to be respectable by most people, the business environment in China is bad, and people tend not to trust us. But there are still good companies here, if you are wise enough, you can buy quality products steadily just like Eli, and only the wise and experienced guys could find the good supplier and make good profit.

Anyway, this should be a place for rational discussion based on testing data and technique details, i think that is how this forum exists to help people.

[Imagery]

Hello. On my second round of charging the cells of my IMA battery, I replaced the pack, and the car initially turned on perfectly. i went down the block, came back and I shut it off again. I immediately restarted the car and the ima battery bars do not light at all. Also, the check engine, ima, and the battery light come on. The ima battery lights that show the car is charging do not work at all.
Does anyone have an idea why??

[ncdave4life]

Imagery, where did you get your battery pack?

[Imagery]

It is the original from the car. I had charged it before, about 6months ago and the car ran really well. It recently started up with the ima light, that is why I recharged it. Do you know why it does not work anymore? Is there something that I did not connect correctly? Thnx