DIY Solutions to Honda Hybrid Battery Problems (Insight, Civic, IMA)

[teoman]

Great thread! And sorry for the resurrection.

I am looking at some honda CRZ's (from 2011-2012) and will inevitably run to the battery problems if i purchase the car.

Is the information in this thread still valid or have the solutions proven to be only temporary and not worth the time and expense.

For constant charging would something like this be any good?
Boost converter with 12v input and adjustable voltage output (200mA max)
High Voltage DC DC Boost Converter 8 32V 12V to +/ 45V 390V ZVS Capacitor Charging-in Inverters & Converters from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


Also if you install the leads, could you not stick more batteries in the trunk and have 160V with a diode and 10A max. Would this improve FE?

[S Keith]

Not sure. I know I've commented in this thread, but I can't say what's still valid and what's not. What I can say is that little, if any, applies to the CRZ.

CRZ and G2 Insight batteries are a different design than their predecessors (though not necessarily compatible with one another - maybe, but I don't know). They have had substantially better reliability.

If you could set the output of that device to about 118V, it would be useful for maintaining about 70-80% average SoC. I assume your goal is to charge the battery with a 12V source?

The fan is PWM controlled. You would need to make provisions for driving the fan while charging.

I can't envision your proposed "more batteries," 160V/diode/10A solution. The battery management system does not permit increases in voltage.

The FE gain from any modification associated with expanded battery capacity is unlikely to be advantageous due to the added weight.

[teoman]

Yes, i would like to use 12V.

There is not really a high power need for the batteries if it is only 350mA. And this gizmo is able to supply 200mA.

6500 mAh / 200mA = 32.5 hours to full charge if battery is completely depleted. But in general i doubt that would be the case.

[Natalya]

Older Honda hybrid batteries (G1 Insight, HCH) die because they have insufficient cooling due to poor airflow and low fan duty cycle, and they operate in a wide SoC window instead of a narrow band.

The Panasonic cells Honda used are actually very good, they're just abused by the terrible BCM letting them work too hard and temperature fluctuations.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by teoman

Yes, i would like to use 12V.

There is not really a high power need for the batteries if it is only 350mA. And this gizmo is able to supply 200mA.

6500 mAh / 200mA = 32.5 hours to full charge if battery is completely depleted. But in general i doubt that would be the case.

If your goal is to "grid charge" the battery w/200mA current off a 12V power source, then that device appears to be sufficient; however, you must provide PWM control of the battery fan during charging. 200mA may not seem like much, but it's enough to overheat cells in their insulated case even at 200mA.

If your goal is to somehow improve efficiency during driving by charging while driving, then no, it's not worthwhile.

[VitalV]

Originally Posted by msantimanzano

Just a brief update. I've been tied up with work etc. so have not been able to do all I wanted to on this, but I did re-do a stick but with different parameters, to ensure the charger was not shutting off prematurely, failing to discharge the cells properly etc. The numbers are vastly different. I'll let some of you tell me in laymen's what I am looking at now.

Battery 3, gave me these numbers the first time I cycled it:

STICK 3 CHARGE DISCHARGE
FIRST 2794 1165
SECOND 2280 1118
THIRD 2285 1116
FOURTH 2351 1116
FIFTH 2266 1118


Adjusting the charger, it now gives me these numbers:
STICK 3 CHARGE DISCHARGE
FIRST 3441 5504
SECOND 3448 5234
THIRD 3449 5162
FOURTH 3449 5322
FIFTH 3454 5302

Hi msantimanzano,

Thank you for all the photos and findings on the IMA battery.
Your work will greatly help me, as I am trying to do the same thing ('05 Accord).
I think this is you last update on the status of reconditioning.
Any news?

I also want to thank other active users in this thread for educating us on the subject.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by VitalV

Hi msantimanzano,

Thank you for all the photos and findings on the IMA battery.
Your work will greatly help me, as I am trying to do the same thing ('05 Accord).
I think this is you last update on the status of reconditioning.
Any news?

I also want to thank other active users in this thread for educating us on the subject.

There's an active community on InsightCentral which may have some applicable solutions for your 05 Accord (hybrid?). Several have done lithium conversions, a few have transplanted Prius batteries, and there's a group actively working on making an aftermarket BMS work so that any battery can be used.

[VitalV]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Natalya]

I'm working on a 2005 Accord, it's pretty similar to the Insights.

A couple days ago I did a BCM tap diagram for the HAH1. You can measure tap voltages to get an idea of overall battery health.

It looks like it will be possible to deep discharge the battery using the taps, but I haven't actually *DONE* it yet, but maybe I get to that today.

The colours on the diagram are the wire colours. There's a 435 ohm resistor between the bottom two pins. This is ALSO where the pack gets split when you turn off the big circuit breaker. I suspect there may be 435 ohm resistors on all of the taps, same as the G1 Insight, but I haven't definitively determined that yet. Someone else who pulled a HAH1 battery would probably know.

[S Keith]

Worth mentioning...

HAH pack is unique in that the main terminals are live when the breaker is on. With all the other Honda NiMH packs, there is a relay that must be engaged by the car in order to make one of the terminals hot. The HAH is unique in this regard. There is a safety by which the cover can't be removed unless the switch is off, but be extremely careful working with this pack.

Additionally, the activities at Insight Central are pretty much irrelevant to the HAH. No one is working on a Lithium pack for it. No one is offering enhanced control of the battery (MIMA, OBDIIC&C, etc.), and your options are to try and fix your pack or replace it with one filled with reconditioned Honda sticks or new Chinese sticks.

If you attempt to fix your pack via the typical reconditioning process described on the interwebz, you need to be okay with repeating it every 2 weeks to 3 months depending on the condition of the battery.

Grid charge/discharge is like a better solution. IF the battery can be improved by stick cycling, this will improve it. If it can't be improved, you've wasted far less of your life wasting your time.

Good luck