DIY Solutions to Honda Hybrid Battery Problems (Insight, Civic, IMA)

[mvrroking]

I have browsed this thread but unfortunately I am having trouble cycling my cells. I have an iMAX B6AC v2 and every time I set up the charger for discharge > charge cycle it always tells me that it is over-charge capacity limit once it is about to finish charging the cell. I have set the parameters to 6500 mah cut off and I can never retrieve the information of the cell due to the "over-charge capacity limit". The sensitivity is set at 5mV per cell peak detection. Is my charger faulty or am I doing something incorrectly.

The cells came from a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid and if I am posting in the wrong thread could somebody point me in the right direction.

[Ecky]

Sounds like you might try a lower (or higher?) cutoff value? Maybe try 6000 or even 5500.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Sounds like you might try a lower (or higher?) cutoff value? Maybe try 6000 or even 5500.

That's the opposite of what he needs. What he's saying is, the charge is terminated at 6500 and destroys the discharge capacity reported as part of the cycle. Setting it to a lower value would just have it terminate early with a similar result (except it would get less charge for the next discharge).

He has multiple options.

1. Abandon all hope. This has been demonstrated to be an exercise in futility. Grid charging/discharge produces equivalent results in far less time, and grid charging is going to be needed for continued reliable operation.
2. Suck it up and buy a replacement pack. Most if not all of the sticks in that pack are likely bad. That's how Honda rolls.

If he truly prefers violently piercing his sack repeatedly with a pickaxe, then he has the following options:

1. Stop using a pathetic toy to try to test high current cells.
2. Split the cycle into individual operations, so the data doesn't get lost.
3. Turn cap limit off and let the charge terminate via -dV (this requires a high quality connection such as ring terminals bolted to the stick - not alligator clips). Also good to set a temp limit of 50°C if he has a temperature sensor, but it needs to be strapped to the hottest cell.

I literally just put 11 Honda packs from a mild climate through reconditioning.

Zero good sticks. Many candidates would work with grid charging, and ALL of them had great capacity, but one or more cells in each stick wouldn't hold charge.

[teoman]

I would not call the imax b6 incapacitated. It is quite usefull and very versatile.

Obviously not suitable for grid charging but good for testing the cells (especially of you calibrate it)

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by teoman

I would not call the imax b6 incapacitated. It is quite usefull and very versatile.

Obviously not suitable for grid charging but good for testing the cells (especially of you calibrate it)

If you wouldn't call it that, then you have no expertise in the matter. For this application, it is a worthless pile of garbage.

It can tell you the 5-10W performance of an item that requires 500+W performance. Total sh!te.

[Natalya]

Originally Posted by S Keith

Worth mentioning...

HAH pack is unique in that the main terminals are live when the breaker is on. With all the other Honda NiMH packs, there is a relay that must be engaged by the car in order to make one of the terminals hot. The HAH is unique in this regard. There is a safety by which the cover can't be removed unless the switch is off, but be extremely careful working with this pack.

Additionally, the activities at Insight Central are pretty much irrelevant to the HAH. No one is working on a Lithium pack for it. No one is offering enhanced control of the battery (MIMA, OBDIIC&C, etc.), and your options are to try and fix your pack or replace it with one filled with reconditioned Honda sticks or new Chinese sticks.

If you attempt to fix your pack via the typical reconditioning process described on the interwebz, you need to be okay with repeating it every 2 weeks to 3 months depending on the condition of the battery.

Grid charge/discharge is like a better solution. IF the battery can be improved by stick cycling, this will improve it. If it can't be improved, you've wasted far less of your life wasting your time.

Good luck

Saw this a couple months late!

I did notice the main terminals as live without the car turned on, and it surprised me! (Fortunately for me I noticed this by probing them with a multimeter -- not by shorting them!)

The owner of this car is a DIY car junkie. I built a grid charger harness for the IMA and I sold him a home-built grid charger of my own, since he said he wouldn't be driving the car frequently enough.

I already know stick-level cycling is a big waste of time as compared with pack-level charge and discharge. I don't even own anything I could cycle sticks with.

In fact I ended up NOT doing any kind of discharge on it because the taps weren't super out-of-whack even after letting it sit for a couple weeks. I jsut built a wire harness, charged it once, and that was it.

[mvrroking]

Originally Posted by S Keith

That's the opposite of what he needs. What he's saying is, the charge is terminated at 6500 and destroys the discharge capacity reported as part of the cycle. Setting it to a lower value would just have it terminate early with a similar result (except it would get less charge for the next discharge).

He has multiple options.

1. Abandon all hope. This has been demonstrated to be an exercise in futility. Grid charging/discharge produces equivalent results in far less time, and grid charging is going to be needed for continued reliable operation.
2. Suck it up and buy a replacement pack. Most if not all of the sticks in that pack are likely bad. That's how Honda rolls.

If he truly prefers violently piercing his sack repeatedly with a pickaxe, then he has the following options:

1. Stop using a pathetic toy to try to test high current cells.
2. Split the cycle into individual operations, so the data doesn't get lost.
3. Turn cap limit off and let the charge terminate via -dV (this requires a high quality connection such as ring terminals bolted to the stick - not alligator clips). Also good to set a temp limit of 50°C if he has a temperature sensor, but it needs to be strapped to the hottest cell.

I literally just put 11 Honda packs from a mild climate through reconditioning.

Zero good sticks. Many candidates would work with grid charging, and ALL of them had great capacity, but one or more cells in each stick wouldn't hold charge.

Ive looked into a couple of grid charger but is there any recent DIY guide or already made grid charger that you would recommend. FINALLY I have an answer to what in the world that error meant. Im not sure if this charger would also be inefficient for determining what cells are good or bad -> Hitec X4 Pro AC/DC. If anyone else here could also help me with finding quality individual cells that'd be great. I know most are from china cant do much about that.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by mvrroking

Ive looked into a couple of grid charger but is there any recent DIY guide or already made grid charger that you would recommend. FINALLY I have an answer to what in the world that error meant. Im not sure if this charger would also be inefficient for determining what cells are good or bad -> Hitec X4 Pro AC/DC. If anyone else here could also help me with finding quality individual cells that'd be great. I know most are from china cant do much about that.

http://www.hybridautomotive.com

[mvrroking]

Originally Posted by S Keith

That's the opposite of what he needs. What he's saying is, the charge is terminated at 6500 and destroys the discharge capacity reported as part of the cycle. Setting it to a lower value would just have it terminate early with a similar result (except it would get less charge for the next discharge).

He has multiple options.

1. Abandon all hope. This has been demonstrated to be an exercise in futility. Grid charging/discharge produces equivalent results in far less time, and grid charging is going to be needed for continued reliable operation.
2. Suck it up and buy a replacement pack. Most if not all of the sticks in that pack are likely bad. That's how Honda rolls.

If he truly prefers violently piercing his sack repeatedly with a pickaxe, then he has the following options:

1. Stop using a pathetic toy to try to test high current cells.
2. Split the cycle into individual operations, so the data doesn't get lost.
3. Turn cap limit off and let the charge terminate via -dV (this requires a high quality connection such as ring terminals bolted to the stick - not alligator clips). Also good to set a temp limit of 50°C if he has a temperature sensor, but it needs to be strapped to the hottest cell.

I literally just put 11 Honda packs from a mild climate through reconditioning.

Zero good sticks. Many candidates would work with grid charging, and ALL of them had great capacity, but one or more cells in each stick wouldn't hold charge.

Sorry for bothering you once more. It seems as though the cells are able to cycle via the setting you talked about. I have so far cycled two cells for 3 cycles and the results are unusual to my understanding,

Cell 1

1. Charge - 7735mah Discharge - 6589mah
2. Charge - 7321mah Discharge - 6142mah
3. Charge - 7181mah Discharge - 6058mah

Cell 2

1. Charge - 7405mah Discharge - 0000mah DEAD
2. Charge - 7582mah Discharge - 6042mah
3. Charge - 7212mah Discharge - 5873mah

Each cycle has a 20min rest period in between and is charging @ 2.0 amps. Cell 1 is clearly the better cell correct?

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by mvrroking

Sorry for bothering you once more. It seems as though the cells are able to cycle via the setting you talked about. I have so far cycled two cells for 3 cycles and the results are unusual to my understanding,

Cell 1

1. Charge - 7735mah Discharge - 6589mah
2. Charge - 7321mah Discharge - 6142mah
3. Charge - 7181mah Discharge - 6058mah

Cell 2

1. Charge - 7405mah Discharge - 0000mah DEAD
2. Charge - 7582mah Discharge - 6042mah
3. Charge - 7212mah Discharge - 5873mah

Each cycle has a 20min rest period in between and is charging @ 2.0 amps. Cell 1 is clearly the better cell correct?

"Cell"? Are you testing the individual cells of the stick? There are 120 cells in the pack, and this should take you the better part of six months to accomplish assuming you can keep them running full time without interruption.

Did you mean to refer to this as "sticks"?

What is unusual to your understanding?