Does it frustrate you too?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by aporigine

I guess we'll always sit on opposite sides of that table. I worry that I have offended a matter on which your feelings are strong. For that I apologize, and I will desist. But not all at once (giggle!)

No apologies needed. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and unlike some others I could mention, you support yours with fact.

...the current Corvette, not enough handling? Its Nurburgring/Nordschleife times, for me the #1 ordeal-of-righteousness for any sports (or more accurately: sporting) car, are simply stellar!

I admit you catch me without data there. I tend not to get interested in a car until it's about 10 years old, as I'm pretty allergic to car payments &c. (Was thinking of picking up a '90s Miata just for fun & backup to the Insight, but can't figure out how to carry two dogs in it - the second being the result of one of those "Can you keep him just for a week or two? Otherwise he'll have to (sniff, sniff) go to the pound..." things. That was in April.)

In the USA, the roadster market seems effectively owned by the Miata. It doesn't leave enough market in the USA for our domestic makers...

But notice that the domestic makers do and have done nothing to create such a market, and much to discourage it. Suppose small two-seaters had gotten the same kind of advertising that went into SUVs & oversized pickups? There wasn't much of a market for those prior to the mid-80s, and what there was was pretty well supplied by Jeep & International. Toyota even marketed a "Sport Truck" back in the '70s, and Subaru had its Brat...

[aporigine]

Arragonis -

The 250 Lusso is indeed a gorgeous beast. My "Standard Catalog of Ferrari" (Krause Publications) shows a pristine example of the berlinetta in, uhm, Italian Racing Green. My least favorite 250 variant (I risk burning at the stake for this!) is the Testa Rossa ... it makes me think of an aardvark overdosed on meth!
Ever since the movie "The Gumball Rally" made a deep impression on an adolescent aporigine, I have never relinquished the conviction that the Ferrari 365 is the car God drives on Sundays - although I much prefer the looks of the hardtop to the GTS. The SOUND that car makes is otherworldly! While modern V12s can sound very good, there is something about that entirely mechanical gear-driven camshaft motor that is at once harsher and more voluptuous than the modern interpretations with full electronic engine management. An early Countach in proper tune makes a similar (less Eydie; more Ozzy) engine note. (There's a Countach on Youtube being run up on a dyno. WHAT a sound; the top end shrieks like a turboshaft engine.) And it all seems to trumpet exultantly out of those for-real quad exhausts!! My hairs, they raise. Visually, that first Countach was a sensation, from the future-fighterjet planes&angles to the "angry cartoon eyes" rear fender cutouts. I have heard (can't confirm; hold in your True Rumors file for now) that "Countach!" is asomewhat impolite Piemontese expression of admiration. You HAVE to love a car called the Holy ****!
(In Scotland: Holy ****e!)
Aesthetically, my all-time favorite supercar has to be the GT40. You put a slightly-reworked pickup truck engine in a wrapper THAT gorgeous and of course it'll trounce the competition.

"some really cool GT styling, and perhaps RHD ?"
Now why would I want to put all the fun bits in front of the passenger seat?
While admittedly de gustibus non est disputandum, that never stopped me. (grin) Imo one of the strengths of the Corvette, esp, the C5 iteration (the one produced 1997-2004) is its absence of boy-racer styling cues. The C6 imo is a step back, with all its bulges, scoops, creases etc. Take Cool GT Styling to its extremum, and we end up with barock confections like the Enzo or the Zonda.

Trivia: Did you know that there was, until recently, a US vehicle made with RHD for domestic consumption?

Uh, I can't seem to make the image appear. Here's another ... not an ideal image, but at least the "naked" url doesn't contain a spoiler!
http://spammusubi.com/EKS/ST06/ST06_37.JPG

larrybuck:
Emphatic agreement on both the Pantera and the Daytona, which I have been misnoming the Cobra coupe. I recline corrected. (smile)
The Mangusta was a cool idea, but I gasped when I saw the weight distribution ... as near as makes no difference 2:1 R:F. Combine that with the nearly square wheelbase, and it makes yesteryear's Porsches seem downright benign, no?

I get it in re headlights. Some look like cheese-wedge appliques; others like Pokemon eyes, e.g. the otherwise brilliant 458 Italia. Or the R8's diabolical eyeliner!! My own huge personal bugbear with modern car design is the Poindexter beltline. Among supercars, Aston's Vanquish jumps to mind. Take one of the worst offenders, the current Chrysler 300. A huge ungainly brick of a body with this "1930s Bendix racer" vestige of a greenhouse. Did someone see wisdom in resurrecting the "chopped and channeled" look from 50s and 60s hot-rodding circles, complete with dangerous gunslit glazing? In one word:

cheers apo

[aporigine]

jamesqf -

in re SUVs, I agree that the marketers tapped one past the goalie that time. What offends me is that in order to make it happen, they effectively KILLED the sensible alternative - the station wagon (in the rest of the Anglophonic word, the estate). A few niche examples survived and still do, but it's a bit like Classic Rock - the real party's over but don't tell the diehards.
The Germans make some sweet if pricey smallish station wagons. They fail a basic Suburban Lifestyle Test that the Tahoe/Suburban cruiserweights pass: can one install three child seats in them, line abreast? Imo that feature sold more SUVs in the States than any other, once supplemental rug-rodent restraint racks were mandated.
Once that fix was in, it wasn't hard at all to market pickups as the coupe version of the ubiquitous SUV!!
But the ultimate sleight-of-hand imo was to make minivans cool: the Acura MDX. (poorly restrained snickering)The M-B ML class. (wet sounds of respiratory distress) Buick Enclave. (volcanic mirth) The Pontiac (rolling on floor) Aztek (shrieking with laughter)!! The Kia LoRento. (deep breath; spitting sound) Minivans.

As for a US-made sports ragtop, imo that game was over before it began. The class languished worldwide, with small British builders (Lotus, TVR...) holding the torch. Heck, even MG went on hiatus. Then Mazda built its Miata and slammed it out of the park on the first swing; it'sOUTTAheea! How could our hidebound major makers even begin to compete with that!? US makes finally have small zippy four-hole engines with DOHCs and VVT and all the goodies ... because we import them and rebadge.
BMW ... don'tgetmestarted. (smile) The Z3 was, imo, gorgeous, an instant classic. The successor Z4 I just don't get. They ruined it.
Bummer about the dogs, amigo. If they're small and smart enough, you can train'em to stack in the passenger seat ... (cackling, ducking)
I saw a fellow once who'd trained his border collie to sit in an adapted milk crate strapped to the pillion of his motorcycle. The dog had gogs and a vest. Coolness.

cheers apo

[Arragonis]

250 Lusso



Panteras - I forgot about Panteras. They can be made to handle very well.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by aporigine

Arragonis -

... (There's a Countach on Youtube being run up on a dyno. WHAT a sound; the top end shrieks like a turboshaft engine.) And it all seems to trumpet exultantly out of those for-real quad exhausts!! My hairs, they raise. Visually, that first Countach was a sensation, from the future-fighterjet planes&angles to the "angry cartoon eyes" rear fender cutouts. I have heard (can't confirm; hold in your True Rumors file for now) that "Countach!" is asomewhat impolite Piemontese expression of admiration. You HAVE to love a car called the Holy ****!

Originally Posted by aporigine

Aesthetically, my all-time favorite supercar has to be the GT40.

I have read that but not as rude. As for the sound, when the car was launched in Monte Carlo Mr Lamborghini himself parked it outside the Grand Casino and went in for a few games. Every 30 minutes or so he came out, got into the car, revved the nuts off the engine and then went back inside again.

Both editions of the Testarossa IMHO were ugly. The GT40 is good looking but its form is born from its function and heritage. The 250's purpose is to look pretty...

Originally Posted by aporigine

"some really cool GT styling, and perhaps RHD ?"
Now why would I want to put all the fun bits in front of the passenger seat?

So it will (may) sell in the civilised world Maybe if GM owned or bought a badge with some image behind it and handed them the oily bits of a Vette to use (a little like Audi does with Lamborghini) maybe it would be considered world class.

Don't know if anyone has noticed but we have taken this thread of its back road economy route and turned onto the Autostrada and blasted between Brescia and Milan at 200+ kp/h...

Maybe we need a Supercar thread.

[cleanspeed1]

By the way, the cam drive on the Daytona was a double row chain. Most of the zizz that people hear is the combination of chain and gear drives on the motor, plus the transmission. And yes, I geeked out. No, I won't apologize for it.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by aporigine

Imo that feature sold more SUVs in the States than any other, once supplemental rug-rodent restraint racks were mandated.

Don't have any direct experience of that. I do like kids on occasion*, but they're much more fun when you can give them back to the parents when you're tired of them.

(*Indeed, it's sort of a running joke among my friends that any weekend get-together quickly devolves into three groups: guys in the living room watching sports, gals in the kitchen gossiping, and me outside having fun with all the kids & dogs.)

But the ultimate sleight-of-hand imo was to make minivans cool:

Minivans aren't cool? Not even the original VW bus?

Bummer about the dogs, amigo. If they're small and smart enough, you can train'em to stack in the passenger seat ... (cackling, ducking)

Midsize dogs, unfortunately, about 55-65 lbs. One's a Bossy Collie (border collie/Australian shepherd mix), the new one's a sort of pit bullish mutt. They don't stack well: a couple of attempts on the part of the new guy resulted in a nipped nose. Now BC has him trained: she rides in the front seat, new guy in the back. Which works well, 'cause she always falls asleep, while he likes to rest his head on the seat back and look out.

[cleanspeed1]

The VW Bus is not a minivan, it's in a catagory all by itself. Do not besmudge the eternal coolness by lumping it in with the rest of the people haulers. CS1 has spoken.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

(*Indeed, it's sort of a running joke among my friends that any weekend get-together quickly devolves into three groups: guys in the living room watching sports, gals in the kitchen gossiping, and me outside having fun with all the kids & dogs.)

Me too - TBH the other conversations are boring.

There is a guy at work with a Collie which of course being about 1 year old wants to play all the time. I'm the one that endlessly replaces the tennis balls once they burst or get chewed. And I make sure they are good quality too so they bounce well and go further

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'm the one that endlessly replaces the tennis balls once they burst or get chewed. And I make sure they are good quality too so they bounce well and go further

Niki (the Bossy Collie) says to make sure they squeak, too.

She doesn't always get squeaky ones, but add a squeaky to the collection, and that's the one she plays with. And she's a specialist: she won't chase anything BUT tennis balls. Sticks, frisbees, even other kinds of balls - she just sits there and gives a disgusted look.

Oh, and if you really want to make a friend happy, get this: http://www.amazon.com/Hyperdog-Tenni...2689860&sr=8-3 Best toy ever for any dog that likes really chasing balls. And good for humans who develop ChuckIt elbow, too.