A drastic change from people born before 1985 compared to people born after 1985...

[trebuchet03]

Such conclusions require larger representative samples... Local trends aren't indicative of national or global ones

And that said... Those born in '86 or after are... younger... Most of which that went to college are just graduating, still there, or not even there yet... The 3 people in a 2br applies well to those in this age bracket (in or out of college). A friend of mine that was born before 85 has already graduated and has been working for several years already... Financially, I can't compete with that

The times just ain't what they used to be.

I find this pretty amusing, actually... Since when are the times like other ones? I've yet to see this happen, or read about it happening or hear forecasts of the times of yore fast approaching. Time is linear from our perspective... and many events are cyclical... But the same event, at a different time, won't be the same at all The constant here, as cliche as it sounds, is change.

[JohnnyGrey]

What you're seeing isn't a generational shift, it's just where these people's station of life happens to be at the moment. I was born in 1984, but I'm not buying BMWs or McMansions.

I can't argue against what you're seeing, because it's what I'm seeing too. However, I believe, those kids born after 85 are going to be doing what the pre 85 people are doing once they hit 22 years old.

What happens when guys get out of college and find that starter job, is that car they've been dreaming of comes within reach (so long as they can live at home and make the payments). Then the starter girlfriend gets her starter job, and after a while, his starter apartment isn't enough. Then she starts whining about a ring because she wants a starter husband. Then they blow about $30K on a wedding so they have to find their starter McMansion, all made possible with abundant credit and no-doc loans. Unless you kids wise up, you're going to fall off the cliff like the guys my age did.

I could owe money on a $35,000 car right now, but I resisted the temptation and have been getting around just fine with an '02 Cavalier that I paid $3299 cash for in '06. Some of the guys my age bought STI's, SUV's, big Benzes and other ridiculously wasteful cars (both in initial cost and expense), and most have crappier jobs than I do. I own my car. Their cars own them. My more successful friends drive modest cars that are paid for, like a Taurus, or an old Saab. What we're seeing now, due to the easy availability of credit is a reverse correlation in vehicle cost and income. The smart guys are driving practical, efficient, 100% paid-for vehicles while they become established, and the morons are steeping themselves in as much debt as they can shoulder month to month. I know a kid who delivers pizza in a Benz E-class (EPA 19mpg hwy on 91 octane fuel!).

When I hear of people getting kicked out of their McMansions, having their Bimmers repoed, whining at the pump, running from creditors, I'm cheering inside. All you morons deserve what you get because you refuse to live within your means. In addition, because you're loose cannons with easy credit, people who would have legitimately have been able to afford a house, now can't. Let the blood run in the streets I say! I should have 20% down on a decent pad by then.

[Peakster]

Very good point JohnnyGrey. Usually the people with the most 'bling' (the cars and fancy houses) have the least amount of money and the most amount of debt.

[Doofus McFancypants]

Read any of those "real secrets of the rich" type books and they all say they same thing. Live below your means, clip coupons, pay yourself first.

When we moved to Atlanta the realtor tried to talk us into more expensive house market sighting the "very low variable rate mortgages" at the time ( almost 4 yrs ago now). Had the wife and I been of the mindset that we needed a big house - we could have been pulled in.

We wern't - went with the price range we wanted - 30 yr fixed rate. even held off purchasing a 2nd car for 6 months to save up for more down payment.

I am sure there are pockets in every genoration whom think "The Bling is the Thing". just the way of people.

Wife and i were born in '74. my parents were '45 and hers were '52.
I consider myself "genoration-ME"

[ebacherville]

Our society has become a terrible sham, its way to extravagant, every one want a bigger car , house, body parts, ect.. You know keep up with the neighbors..

Don't fall into it and you'll be far better off.. I'm actually considering downsizing anywhere i can.

My wife has a co worker that any time some one comes into work with a newer car, or and ring or cloths, basically anything she needs to match or beat it and shes so far in debt she is now working 2 jobs, her leased car is way over mileage and she has a year lease left, she could not get a loan for the car as she has to much debt.. she has over 30k on credit cards and her house hold income is under 100k.. Sadest part is she keeps on doing the same stuff.. more and more debt.

I told my wife to use it as a great example to think about when shopping and tempted to spend extra... it worked.. she see how this lady comes in and talks about she says she has no money, yet goes out to eat every day at dinner etc.. and then this lady askes her to go out and she says no eating out is expensive.. the lady says you always have money spend some of it.. My wife says yeah i have money as I'm never eating out.. yet this lady just doesn't put 2 and 2 together.

So now we just laugh at her utter stupidity in the matter and don't try to help.. its good laughs at home to think of how she basically eats a new car payment worth of cash on eating out everyday, and then the stories of what new thing she bought because some one else got something..

[JohnnyGrey]

Saving money should come naturally to hypermilers. It's the same type of engineering problem. Being a cheap ******* is a great hobby.

The reason I have no pity for people who can't fill up their Yukons now is because most had no good reason for buying the vehicle, except that at the time, the economy was good and they could "swing it". The concept of preparing for bad times during the good times is foreign to most people. They don't anticipate, they only respond. This is why I absolutely love recessions (so long as I still have my job). People ditch the toys they could barely afford in good times, and in bad times they'll be happy to part with them for $0.50 cash on the dollar. I love weddings for the same reason. Once wifey starts nesting, hubby's goods find their way to Ebay for cheap.

After the first three dollar gas scare, when prices went back to two dollars, people asked me why I was so concerned with getting more MPGs out of my car. "Gas is cheap now!" Where they once could afford to fill up, they're now grabbing their ankles, upside-down on their car payments, stuck with guzzlers.

Do these people have any idea how expensive economy cars get when gas shoots up? That's when they all scramble to buy one. Some even put up their sports cars and SUVs up for an even trade! I bought my four banger when nobody wanted one, and as a result, I got it cheap. When gas went through the roof, I picked up my Porsche cheap too, probably traded in by some jerk who couldn't afford to fuel it.

Another thing that perplexes me is how people are so emotional about the price of fuel, yet they have no idea what percentage of the total cost of vehicle ownership fuel is. People think paying $200/mo for fuel will break them when they make $450 car payments. I'd be willing to bet that the average shmuck who bought a new car, will be losing more money to depreciation than to fuel for the first five or so years of ownership, even at today's prices.

[Peakster]

Originally Posted by ebacherville

My wife has a co worker that any time some one comes into work with a newer car, or and ring or cloths, basically anything she needs to match or beat it and shes so far in debt she is now working 2 jobs, her leased car is way over mileage and she has a year lease left, she could not get a loan for the car as she has to much debt.. she has over 30k on credit cards and her house hold income is under 100k

That is so scary. How can someone sleep at night when in such a financial state? And the truth is that people like that aren't hard to find. I bet the credit companies just love her to death.

Originally Posted by JohnnyGrey

Do these people have any idea how expensive economy cars get when gas shoots up? That's when they all scramble to buy one. Some even put up their sports cars and SUVs up for an even trade! I bought my four banger when nobody wanted one, and as a result, I got it cheap. When gas went through the roof, I picked up my Porsche cheap too, probably traded in by some jerk who couldn't afford to fuel it.

I'm seeing "Trade for fuel efficient car" offers on websites all the time :

!!!!SAVE GAS!!!
1989 GMC Suburban SLE, 4x4, 350 v8, fuel injected, dual exhaust, power windows/locks, tilt, cruise, 218,000 kms. Runs excellent! very little rust.
Asking $3400 or trade for fuel efficient car (honda civic, integra etc.)

$3,400?!? Is he crazy?

[RH77]

Originally Posted by Peakster

$3,400?!? Is he crazy?

Sweet! I'll trade my 'Teg straight up

Believe it or not, 4-wheel drives generally command a premium over their 2WD counterparts. I see rustbuckets sell for $2000 or better all the time just becuase of that feature.

Stuff like this makes the value of my car go up (and no, it's not for sale )

RH77

[JohnnyGrey]

Believe it or not, 4-wheel drives generally command a premium over their 2WD counterparts. I see rustbuckets sell for $2000 or better all the time just becuase of that feature.

Of course they do, because as new vehicles, they commanded a higher price with that option. Also, here in PA, people buy 4WD/AWD vehicles for those 2 days a year where FWD vehicles have a little difficulty getting around. They pay hundreds more a year in fuel because of that option. A chick where I work has a 30 mile commute every day in a 4x4 Jeep. She brags about how easily her vehicle takes off in the snow, and the other 99% of the time whines about gas prices.

I've been driving since 2001 and still haven't encountered a winter day where FWD left me stranded. Hell, I even pulled an RWD GMC Jimmy out of a rut. FWD lets you gauge the road's traction without breaking your rear end loose, which is nice in snow and ice, plus I enjoy the challenge.

[LostCause]

Originally Posted by JohnnyGrey

When I hear of people getting kicked out of their McMansions, having their Bimmers repoed, whining at the pump, running from creditors, I'm cheering inside. All you morons deserve what you get because you refuse to live within your means. In addition, because you're loose cannons with easy credit, people who would have legitimately have been able to afford a house, now can't. Let the blood run in the streets I say! I should have 20% down on a decent pad by then.

You make a good argument, but I don' think it's necessarily a good thing to revel in people's misfortunes. I don't know who the poorer sucker is, the one dealing with bad credit or the one needing to fill his ego by saying "I was right."

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean this as a personal attack. In all honesty, I feel almost exactly the same way, but I can't help but feel a little guilty for taking pleasure in someone else's pain. It's just unfortunate that people act the way they do.

If you live at 99% of your means, you'll always be ahead. If you live at 101% of your means, you'll always be in debt. So simple, yet so evasive...

- LostCause