Dreaming...lean burn manual taller transmission Civic sedan...or get an Insight

[BongoBennie]

OK here's my 2 cents

1G insight with bad motor and battery $500-$1000
08 Fit engine $2-300
04 Honda Civic manual gear box with 08 Fit inner case/bellhousing $5-700
04 Civic knuckles and brakes (makes axles easy)$100
Hondata Flashpro $600 or Kpro $1000 (need to adapt a cable throttle body)


you will need to cut the hood or build a new Intake manifold (longer!)

with the programable ECU you can program open loop and run lean and mean and datalogging everything on the way to work

Kpro uses the 04 RSX ECU as a base and a wiring harness will make everything but the engine harness plug and play, Flashpro is cheaper but requires loads of wiring and is less feature packed than Kpro (which has bluetooth!)

Finally, throw everything IMA related in the trash and your car is now 100 pounds lighter give or take.

finally a custom header and you're golden (long tri Y)


I'm doing this exact swap but adding a huge stereo, dynomatt, summer sticky tires and a turbo but without all of that I don't see why you cant beat the originals highway MPG and do pretty good elsewhere and once its running not only will it run forever but now parts are dime a dozen.

the attached pic is #1 Fit M/T gearing with 195-55-15s VS #2 HCH M/T gearing with 165-65-14s @65 mph

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

OK here's my 2 cents

1G insight with bad motor and battery $500-$1000
08 Fit engine $2-300
04 Honda Civic manual gear box with 08 Fit inner case/bellhousing $5-700
04 Civic knuckles and brakes (makes axles easy)$100
Hondata Flashpro $600 or Kpro $1000 (need to adapt a cable throttle body)


you will need to cut the hood or build a new Intake manifold (longer!)

with the programable ECU you can program open loop and run lean and mean and datalogging everything on the way to work

Kpro uses the 04 RSX ECU as a base and a wiring harness will make everything but the engine harness plug and play, Flashpro is cheaper but requires loads of wiring and is less feature packed than Kpro (which has bluetooth!)

Finally, throw everything IMA related in the trash and your car is now 100 pounds lighter give or take.

finally a custom header and you're golden (long tri Y)


I'm doing this exact swap but adding a huge stereo, dynomatt, summer sticky tires and a turbo but without all of that I don't see why you cant beat the originals highway MPG and do pretty good elsewhere and once its running not only will it run forever but now parts are dime a dozen.

the attached pic is #1 Fit M/T gearing with 195-55-15s VS #2 HCH M/T gearing with 165-65-14s @65 mph

There’s a lot more to it than that and you know it. Adapting the harness, replumbing A/C, building mounts from scratch, and any tranny case other than the Insight’s might not clear the frame, so you might have to transplant the guts from a Civic into the Insight’s case. I expect a K20 swap is easier since mounts and axles actually exist for it. Base K20’s are cheap as dirt, and there are 6 speed transmissions available. Some even had lean burn from the factory, if I’m not mistaken. No doubt the L15 is a more thrifty motor than K20, but we’re talking major fabrication.

And no, I don’t see getting 100mpg out of a stock L15, regardless of gearing.

But, I’m looking forward to seeing your finished product. Keep track of your total expenses please.

[BongoBennie]

Yeah, I never said 100 MPG, I guess I meant stock. I have mounted the engine with the Fit A/T (bigger)and it fits and even uses the factory trans mount...As far as 5 speed (much smaller that A/T) goes I have at my house an 08Fit, 09Fit, 04HCH, and 02Insight gearboxes and all of the outer cases are all the same. Yes you will need some skills, I assume most here can do more than change a tire but if I had the time and a jig for the mounts, it could be done in a weekend. A/c compressor is the same port wise as K20. Lean burn is a function of wideband O2 sensor and the ECU, gut the cat and run high NOX and you can do much better with a K as well.

BTW wasn't this a dreaming post?

This car should be looked at as the ultimate high MPG car but as a reliable, easy and cheap car to fix and drive and compared to the original, a whole lot more fun......


*****

I just discussed with my wife about salvaging my project to do this exact thing in my other insight since its still untouched, she said I must, I hate you Ecky

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Yeah but that one is much simpler. The IMA system doesn't assist or regen when the clutch is pressed, so you just add a clutch switch toggle. It's not physically turning anything off.

Wouldn't that work to prevent forced regen?

Originally Posted by Ecky

It would be ideal if it did, but that would probably be a tuning nightmare. There's just a lean and a normal map, and it switches between the two.

Ah, true. Besides, the Insight is very fuel efficient as it is already. Imagine if the same technology had been improved upon - lean burn, aerodynamic design, and all!

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by BongoBennie

I'm doing this exact swap but adding a huge stereo, dynomatt, summer sticky tires and a turbo but without all of that I don't see why you cant beat the originals highway MPG and do pretty good elsewhere and once its running not only will it run forever but now parts are dime a dozen.

Do you have a build thread here on Ecomodder? That sounds like a great story to follow...you and Ecky should have a race between the Insights!

[19bonestock88]

I think that Ecky would win with his K24... has waaaay note TQ than the L15

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by 19bonestock88

I think that Ecky would win with his K24... has waaaay note TQ than the L15

And still get better fuel economy than my Civic.

[BongoBennie]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

Do you have a build thread here on Ecomodder? That sounds like a great story to follow...you and Ecky should have a race between the Insights!

I have one on honda-tech but while typing my last response to Ecky I realised I could change things up for the better so that thread is kind of dead.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...muter-3290050/


I do have a recent thread here about the transmission
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...wap-36618.html

I will make a new one here for this car but probably after its done, Im thinking by spring



I have a bone stock and untouched 5 speed with bad motor and IMA, Im going to ditch the turbo (GT2554r and it wasn't cheap yet very small) and basically build a stock part insight with with maybe a set of 185 55 14 summer tires and a set of bald RE92s for when I'm in the mood to hypermile. My dad has been building custom headers since he was a kid so a long tube small diameter header will be in the mix as well as a matching intake. It will also have maybe 50 pounds of stereo VS 175-200. Ill save the car for my second build which will be crazy and cool.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by Ecky

A lot of reasons. The computers don’t like when you change battery chemistries. The BMS freaks out. And, normal off the shelf 18650’s don’t handle 100 amp charging rates very well. You end up needing a battery with 5x the capacity with high current rated cells so they don’t pop when you hit the brakes.

People are working on it, but it’s not remotely simple.

Well if its 100a thats only 0.83 amps per cell so that wouldn't be a big deal but I do see what you're saying. The system would need a lot of alteration as 120 1.2V cells in series is just not going to work at all for 3.6V lithium cells.
https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/Specificati...22.08.2014.pdf

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by hayden55

Well if its 100a thats only 0.83 amps per cell so that wouldn't be a big deal but I do see what you're saying. The system would need a lot of alteration as 120 1.2V cells in series is just not going to work at all for 3.6V lithium cells.
https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/Specificati...22.08.2014.pdf

Ahh, but 120 1.2v cells in series (as per your example) charging at 100 amps, are still getting 100 amps per cell. You have to put them in parallel to reduce the current. So you'd end up with 100x100 cells, or 10,000 total.

Edit: Tesla's batteries do actually have that many cells - around 7-10,000. They have a bunch in series to get the voltage needed, then they parallel that enough times to give the amperage needed. The Insight's NiMH cells are absolute monsters to be able to take 100 amps each, for tens of thousands of cycles, for potentially up to two decades.