Earth's Albedo-Flip greenhouse amplification

[Piotrsko]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

What I want is a roof that lasts 100 years with nothing but power washing necessary, that can vary from nearly full reflectivity to nearly transparent, that doesn't cost a fortune.

Except for the reflectivity changes you want a slate roof and fortune cost is relative depending on length of residence

[freebeard]

ETFE transmits UV so it isn't degraded by it. Never needs pressure washing.

www.etferoof.com/

Ethylene Tetrafluoroethylene, ETFE, is a kind of new generation plastic having high chemical resistance and mechanical strength over a very wide temperature range. It is a very molecularly stable material. The strong bonds that exist between the fluoroplymer molecules avoids the degradation of the material due to atmospheric conditions, substances deposited on the material or ultraviolet radiation.

Having 25-30 years of durability, color stability and resistance against becoming brittle, ETFE, with its unparalled alternative to traditional materials, is used successfully for heat insulation and sun control at the façades and roofs.
....
Shading with ETFE systems
Whilst base material is very transparent, ETFE foil can be treated in a number of different ways to manipulate its transparency and radiation transmission characteristics by adding more layers, printing, tinting, surface treatments and radiation.

Clever Shading

It is also possible to control the amount of light that is transmitted to the inside by combining 1 translucent and 2 printed ETFE films into a 3 layer design and moving the middle layer up and down. Through this approach, maximum shading or reduced shading can be achieved as and when required. Essentially, this means that it is possible to create a building skin which is reactive to the environment through changes in climate. In such systems the middle layer is programmed to rise and fall (using air pressure) to increase and decrease the percentage of printed area and therefore control solar gain.

[oil pan 4]

I am on awe of the mental gymnastics the believers will go through to convince them selves this scam is real.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by aerohead

1) The pure white powder snow phase of water has the highest reflective index ( albedo) as any natural surface. For any solar radiation falling on it, it reflects about 82.5% back to space, and absorbs 17.5%.
2) Global warming is such that, temperatures even at 18,600-feet elevation are warm enough to melt powder snow.
3) When the snow melts, and then re-freezes at night, it becomes an ice phase of water, with a reflective index of only 73%, absorbing 54.28% more energy.
This difference in heat absorption is equivalent to reducing Earth's orbital distance from the Sun to, 74,841,296-miles. 18.1-million miles closer to the Sun.
4) When all the ice melts, leaving exposed rock, the reflective index falls to around 62.5%, absorbing 37.5% of solar energy. The difference in absorbed solar radiation is equivalent to further reducing Earth's orbit to 63,504,954-miles, which places Earth 'inside' the orbit of Venus. 29,455,045-miles closer to the Sun.
This isn't a 'future' scenario. This is happening right now. This is what Andrew Glickson referred to as our greatest threat, as this is exactly what drove some of the greatest past mass-extinction events in Earth's geological record.
5) There's around 4300- billion tons of Methane stored in the permafrost and ocean floor clathrates.
6) Methane is a greenhouse gas which is 27-times more powerful than carbon-dioxide.
7) Releasing 4300-gigatons of methane is equivalent to releasing 116,100-gigatons of carbon dioxide.
8) 11,610,000,000,000-pound of carbon-dioxide.
9) 11.6-trillion pounds of carbon dioxide.
10) Earth will heat more and faster than ever in Earth's geologic record.
11) It can't be engineered for.
12) All the wealth on Earth wouldn't scratch the surface of the cost.
So, that's what's unfolding.

Methane is gone in 12 years so it really isn't 27x worse than CO2 (which sticks around hundreds of years). And a hotter earth with more (liquid) water is going to be more humid resulting in more cloud cover (& storms/extreme weather). Clouds are essentially as reflective as snow, but they'll cover a greater percentage of the earth's surface.

A hotter, more humid earth will probably result in more tropical diseases. It'll also make some formerly arid land areas able to grow crops which, while deserts reflect better than forests, will capture more CO2.

Cliff notes: While may royally **** up the the earth's climate for a few thousand years, making it harder for (the poorest of) us to survive, life on earth will adapt and soldier on over the next ~2 billion years until the sun dies.

[aerohead]

I amended the data on page-1, including the data and sources.
Any discussion requires the mathematics.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I assumed these facts were provided from other sources, not self-sourced math you had worked out. You didn't show the math, so there's no way for me to follow it.

I provided the source material at the bottom of the original post on page-1.
Since everyone's smarter than I am, and don't have any agenda, or axe to grind, and already did the calculations, already knew I was 'wrong' about everything, the instant I posted; I'm relying on all of those who I aspire to be as smart as, to go ahead and publish their findings, so I'll know the error of my ways.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Ice cap albedo is not the only form of albedo and is minimal in comparison to the other albedo changing activities we as humans perform.

I read an article years ago on a piece of newsprint that discussed the increased average temperatures across the Los Angeles basin simply because of the dark albedo created by pavement and roofs. It then stated that eastern counties such as the Inland Empire and Palm Springs were effected to some degree by this mass of hot air moving across on prevailing winds. On the other hand, the El Centro Valley, which was a desert before man used the Colorado to irrigate it, sees a temperature drop because of the increased vegetation (farmland).

My point is this. If after curtailing or stopping the output of CO2, the climate warms anyways because of other activities such as albedo changing consturcts, deforestation and farming being only some of them? How about the effect of the oceanic environment? We know so little about the ocean and it covers so much of our planet.

If you force me to destroy my economies by using only wind and solar power and I find that all that effort did nothing to stop disaster, . . . I'm coming to your house and punching you in the nose!

1) Albedo-flip accompanied past mass extinctions.
2) Albedo-flip WILL be the trigger for the Anthropocene mass extinction.
3) Anthropogenically-forced albedo-flip IS, factually the DOMINANT albedo parameter in 'abrupt' climate change.
4) After ending carbon emissions, the planet will continue to warm from the GHGs which remain for 1,000-years, unless captured and sequestered forever.
5) The 37- climate models ( as of 2017 )already take the oceans into effect. Always did.
6) Switching to wind and solar can only enrichen the global economy, as, presently, they're the most economical form of energy production.
7) Renewables ARE one of the few things KNOWN to have a direct impact on global warming.
8) I don't know where you live.
9) I live in the United States of America.
10) The USA is a 'capitalist' nation.
11) Capitalists only ask for twelve years to move their portfolio out of eclipsed technologies, and into 'emerging' technologies.
12) Even the IPCC comprehends this.
13) And they're giving us until 2035 or so to make the changes.
14) We've had since 1958 to make plans and act.
15) There is no downside.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

LOL, might want to include a smiley to make it unambiguous the comment was made in jest.

I wonder what "CO2" equivalent there is installing white asphalt shingles instead of black? Seems like low hanging fruit considering there is no extra cost for white. White actually costs less when you consider it lasts longer.

I had considered this when putting a new roof on the house several years ago, but black simply looks better and goes with more color schemes. Had to give more weight to resale value than to longevity or reflectivity.

Still, reflecting 4x more energy with white asphalt shingles vs black is no small thing. Very valuable in hot and sunny regions and pays dividends in reduced cooling load.



I expect the greening of the earth to continue as it has been, especially as poorer countries become educated and rise from poverty. Their cities will grow and green spaces can be reclaimed.

1) The thermal insulation above the ceiling cannot perceive the infrared radiation you experience when you go up into your attic.
2) R-Factor is based solely upon the dry-bulb delta-T between the 'outside' of the home's envelope, and the 'inside.'
3) If the temperature, just above the attic insulation is no more than 10-degrees-F higher than the ambient outdoor dry-bulb temperature, you're 'golden.'
4) If it's more than 10-degrees, you need more ventilation.
5) Add soffit vents under the eaves, and ridge ventilation equal to the net area of the soffits, based upon recommendations for your area.
6) Ideally, your AC unit and all your ductwork should be within the conditioned space.
7) If you're on pier and beam, with underfloor ducting, the floor needs to be at least R-19, and all the ductwork needs proper insulation wrap and vapor barrier. All seams sealed with mastic.

[freebeard]

Any discussion requires the mathematics.

Got it.

I'm relying on all of those who I aspire to be as smart as, to go ahead and publish their findings, so I'll no the error of my ways.

Know comment.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Methane is gone in 12 years so it really isn't 27x worse than CO2 (which sticks around hundreds of years). And a hotter earth with more (liquid) water is going to be more humid resulting in more cloud cover (& storms/extreme weather). Clouds are essentially as reflective as snow, but they'll cover a greater percentage of the earth's surface.

A hotter, more humid earth will probably result in more tropical diseases. It'll also make some formerly arid land areas able to grow crops which, while deserts reflect better than forests, will capture more CO2.

Cliff notes: While may royally **** up the the earth's climate for a few thousand years, making it harder for (the poorest of) us to survive, life on earth will adapt and soldier on over the next ~2 billion years until the sun dies.

1) For twelve years the methane is 27X more powerful.
2) It biodegrades to carbon-dioxide, and remains in the atmosphere for 1,000-years.
3) Water vapor is the #1 greenhouse gas.
4) A 1-C rise in global temperature increases the atmospheric concentration of water vapor by 7%, increasing warming on top of what the anthropogenic GHGs add.
5) More humidity = more heat index, which means more heat stress, heat stroke, and heat death. ( 70,000 died in the 2003 European heat wave alone )
6) Marine stratiform clouds are the most important to radiative forcing and are what primarily cool the Earth. The presence of near-supersaturation and cloud condensation nuclei do not guarantee cloud formation at high dew-points, a feature of a warming planet.
7) Clouds also HOLD heat.
8) They can prevent night-time cooling, raising 'low' temperatures.
9) Yes, atmospheric rivers, tornados, and tropical cyclones all derive their 'fuel' from tropical moist air.
10) Yes, say hello to:
-Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic fever
- Angiostronylus vasorm
- Chyridiomycosis
- Babasia bigemina
- SARS
- Ebola
- Nipah virus-
- Toxoplasma gondi
- Helicobacter pylori
- Borrelia burgdorferi
- Encephalitis
- Yellow fever
- Dengue Fever ( owner of the place I'm at had this! )
- Zika virus
- West Nile virus
- Tularemia
11) some dry areas will become drier
some wet areas will become wetter
some areas will become desert
some areas will become tropical
12) At 104-F photosynthesis stops. No amount of water or fertilizer makes a difference.
13) All vegetation which can be grown in 400-years is presently burned by humans each year.
14) Unless all carbon emissions are stopped and carbon removed down to 350ppm, life pretty much ends by 2100. We know it from Earth's geologic record.