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Old 04-25-2022, 03:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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My point isn't that you're wrong about everything or not smart enough. My point is that if I'm understanding what you're saying in the 1st post, that all ice melting will be equivalent to the earth receiving 2x more sunlight (extrapolated from Venus orbit comment), then I would expect the climate experts to be making those sorts of claims. I haven't seen such claims.

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Old 04-25-2022, 04:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
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point........ understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My point isn't that you're wrong about everything or not smart enough. My point is that if I'm understanding what you're saying in the 1st post, that all ice melting will be equivalent to the earth receiving 2x more sunlight (extrapolated from Venus orbit comment), then I would expect the climate experts to be making those sorts of claims. I haven't seen such claims.
1) for 18,000-years the mountain glaciers were stable. Ice covered with snow.
2) in 1979 they began to come apart.
3) the reason for it is global warming.
4) If you ever read Glickson's book, you're going to find out that we're toast. It's already bad. It's only gonna get worse.
5) There's a brief window to act.
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This thread is about a way to think about our impact. It's just a thought experiment, Like Richard Feynman's, about a glass of ice water, a rubber o-ring, and the Challenger disaster.
1-4 provided enough information for the setup:
All else being equal, what would one have to do, to get pure white virgin powder snow -phase water, to begin absorbing the same amount of solar energy that 'darker' ice-phase water absorbs, using constant solar output as the energy source.
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If you change none of the other conditions, you must move the Earth closer to the Sun in order to increase the 'solar constant.'
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A) We know Earth's solar constant.
B) We know the solar insolation value on the ice cap.
C) We know Pure snow's solar absorption rate.
D) We know the solar absorption rate for ice.
E) The ratio between the solar absorption rate of ice is compared to snow.
F) That tells us what the solar constant would have to be in order for snow to begin absorbing at the same rate as ice.
G) We know Earth's distance from the Sun.
H) Using the inverse-square law, we plug in the solar constant, and the distance to the Sun-squared, and solve for the Steller heat flux (S), in Watts/square-meter.
I) (S) falls out of the equation.
J) This is a constant that is plugged into memory.( It's in the 10-to-the-19th power in size ).
K) So, we're interested in a solar constant associated with the ratio we came up with at (F).
L) We calculate that.
M) Placing that into the inverse-square law, using ( S), we solve for the new distance-squared.
N) From that we take it's square-root, and the new distance at which energy balances for the different albedo falls out.( 74,841,303.31-miles )
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O) We do the same for the 'rock-phase' albedo, and it comes out at 63,503,861-miles ( inside the orbital distance of Venus ).
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We're only talking about what's happening on the ice cap, at that latitude, at that elevation, in mid-June of 1980, over the course of about a week.
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NOTE: As an aside, Earth is not the only member of our solar system experiencing global warming!
Triton, one of the moons of Neptune, between 1989, and October, 1997, gained almost 2-degrees Kelvin, warming from negative-394.87-F, to negative-391.27-F, and it did it because of a change to it's albedo. Triton is geologically active, with geyser plumes raining a reddish methane oxidate onto the satellites surface, absorbing weak, feeble solar energy.
It's a 'living' example of another global 'Albedo-flip' phenomena associated with a global warming.
The 200-inch Hale telescope at Mount Palomar Observatory, California, and Voyager-2 space probe monitored the activity.
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Old 04-25-2022, 06:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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18,000 yeara of stabile glaciers?
I call BS on that.
There's no way the glaciers didn't see massive growth in 536 through 541ad when the earth had 2 years of winter and a year without summer.
So right off the bat we know you lied.
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Old 04-25-2022, 07:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You failed to show your maths. OP will be displeased.

I know, I make myself culpable. 0 divided by 0 is Null.
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Old 04-28-2022, 12:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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stable

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
18,000 yeara of stabile glaciers?
I call BS on that.
There's no way the glaciers didn't see massive growth in 536 through 541ad when the earth had 2 years of winter and a year without summer.
So right off the bat we know you lied.
Conditions/ context, caveats, were specifically spelled out.
I can't read it for you.
I can't comprehend it for you.
If you'll keep reading until you comprehend the content, you'll realize that you don't know what you're talking about, and have no logical argument.
An unabridged collegiate dictionary will help you understand the definitions of words.
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Old 04-29-2022, 11:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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So it's false advertising.
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Old 05-02-2022, 12:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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climate experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
My point isn't that you're wrong about everything or not smart enough. My point is that if I'm understanding what you're saying in the 1st post, that all ice melting will be equivalent to the earth receiving 2x more sunlight (extrapolated from Venus orbit comment), then I would expect the climate experts to be making those sorts of claims. I haven't seen such claims.
It appears that they've already had such limited success communicating 'straight' climate science as it is, that there'd be no point in additional hypotheticals as obtuse as this thought experiment.
A simplification might be:
Comparing the 'warmth' one would feel, wearing a 'black' T-shirt on Earth, at its present orbital distance, to what one would feel wearing a 'white' T-shirt, on Earth moved within the Venusian orbit.
You'd feel the same thing.
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Old 05-02-2022, 12:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
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536-541 AD

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
18,000 yeara of stabile glaciers?
I call BS on that.
There's no way the glaciers didn't see massive growth in 536 through 541ad when the earth had 2 years of winter and a year without summer.
So right off the bat we know you lied.
1) I have no data for that time period.
2) The 'year without a summer' has been reported for the year 1815, during the maximum excursion of the 'Little Ice Age,' ( 1550-1850).
3) Climate skeptics have blamed the ' Little Ice Age' on the 'so-called 'Maunder- Minimum.'
4) The 'Little Ice Age' began 95-years BEFORE the Maunder-Minimum began.
5) Historic auroral records for the period demonstrate that there's no such thing as a 'Maunder-Minimum,' and that auroral activity ( solar activity ) was basically the same as it is today.
5) The 'year without a summer' has been attributed to the Fall, 1815, explosive eruption of Mount Tambora, Indonesia, which spewed enough sulfate aerosol into the stratosphere, to cool the entire planet by 2-F, for 2-years.
6) It was at this time that Mary Shelley wrote 'Frankenstein.'
7) The Tambora eruption was preceded by a 'Krakatoa-scale' eruption in 1695.
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Old 05-03-2022, 03:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I wasn't talking about the Maunder-Minimum or the little ice age. I have no idea why even bring that up unless you need a strawman, which you usually do.
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Old 05-03-2022, 04:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
1) I have no data for that time period.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't just say anything at all.

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