Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Success Stories
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-06-2018, 11:15 AM   #131 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,891

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 59.89 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,710
Thanked 1,394 Times in 955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
What about when approaching a stop and you've coasted to below 15 mph and the mpg readout is 30 or under? Is it okay to turn it off and coast the last few feet?
If RPM is still over the minimum threshold, usually about 1500/1600 in my experience but sometimes lower, then the computer should have cut off fuel entirely if your foot is totally off the throttle. That would be "infinite" gas mileage. Can you select gears at all? Is the a "L1" and L2" choice on your gear selector?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Wouldn't the gains from that be negligible with the air dam?
Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
... wouldn't the reduced weight reduce coasting ability? Like, when going down even a slight downhill my MPGs jump to like 85...wouldn't the weight reduction require the generation of more momentum in cruising, thus cancelling out the benefit from the lighter weight?
It all depends on your driving conditions. For example, if you drive in traffic where both somewhat hard acceleration from a stop is frequently as unavoidable as friction brake stops, then weight reduction is a good idea. If you have lots of opportunities to coast off all or almost all of your speed, then weight reduction is probably not much of a benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
I generally take turns at 15-25 mph (when safe) to reduce acceleration, wouldn't this make that impossible due to the increased steering difficulty?
Above 5 or 10 mph, most people cannot tell much difference between PS and non-PS, in my experience. It's most useful in parking and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Aren't the batteries expensive, and isn't their lifespan short enough to where there is no ROI?
Yes, they are more expensive. My Odyssey 1200 with the metal jacket coast over $200 and it lasted 7 years. If you buy the right charger and plan not to draw down the charge very much, using the alt once you get down to 50% charge, then the battery will last ages. I think I killed mine prematurely because I started charging devices on it and not always remembering to plug in at night anymore. If I were doing it again, I would go for lithium batteries. More charge cycles. I jsut could not justify the outlay for a new charger when I have a great one for the Odyssey battery, so I bought another odyssey battery (lead acid). My alt delete is probably worth about 3 mpg. Maybe more. Impossible to measure. I have no idea if it is a great ROI measured directly. But if I think about how much I learned and how these mods and my fuel savings encourage me to keep the car, and then if I remember the cost of Prius in depreciation and insurance... well, every mod to "Black & Green" has pretty good ROI.

__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-06-2018, 03:31 PM   #132 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,684

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 34.82 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,895
Thanked 1,245 Times in 927 Posts
You can remove the power steering belt and do an A-B-A. I do not have any proof that removing my power steering improved my fuel economy, but it is only noticeable when I am stopped, and it does not bother me. I did not test it, I needed to move the power steering pump out of the way to replace my alternator, and I just removed it. I have not wanted to pull the power steering from my much-heavier Accord, but I might as well for an A-B-A, and perhaps I would decide to delete it.

Then again, I do not want to drive a car that has a roof that flexes over 50 MPH, so I am not sure what I am going to do with that car.

Air dams are considered to be most of the benefit of a belly pan with only a fraction of the work, but all of the cool kids have belly pans...

I am not now, nor have I ever been a cool kid...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 06:58 PM   #133 (permalink)
Gen 1 Insight Hunter
 
mpg_numbers_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 424

Silver Aero (Personal Driving) - '04 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic
Team Honda
90 day: 49.92 mpg (US)

Family Minivan (my driving only) - '04 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited
90 day: 31.96 mpg (US)

Silver Aero (Pizza Delivery) - '04 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 137
Thanked 76 Times in 66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
If RPM is still over the minimum threshold, usually about 1500/1600 in my experience but sometimes lower, then the computer should have cut off fuel entirely if your foot is totally off the throttle. That would be "infinite" gas mileage. Can you select gears at all? Is the a "L1" and L2" choice on your gear selector?
Yea the auto lets you select third and second gear, but not first. So are you saying downshift when coming to a stop to keep the RPMs above 1600 instead of coasting to a stop in neutral from a distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
It all depends on your driving conditions. For example, if you drive in traffic where both somewhat hard acceleration from a stop is frequently as unavoidable as friction brake stops, then weight reduction is a good idea. If you have lots of opportunities to coast off all or almost all of your speed, then weight reduction is probably not much of a benefit.
There are stops on my routes, but my driving style rarely require stopping except for stop signs. Yet. This fall I will be going to college in Virginia, and most of my driving (if any) will be heavy traffic, so weight reduction would seem to be key then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Above 5 or 10 mph, most people cannot tell much difference between PS and non-PS, in my experience. It's most useful in parking and such.
The problem with that is that my dad wouldn't let me do that...and since I'm on their insurance until this fall I'm kinda stuck there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Yes, they are more expensive. My Odyssey 1200 with the metal jacket coast over $200 and it lasted 7 years. If you buy the right charger and plan not to draw down the charge very much, using the alt once you get down to 50% charge, then the battery will last ages. I think I killed mine prematurely because I started charging devices on it and not always remembering to plug in at night anymore. If I were doing it again, I would go for lithium batteries. More charge cycles. I jsut could not justify the outlay for a new charger when I have a great one for the Odyssey battery, so I bought another odyssey battery (lead acid). My alt delete is probably worth about 3 mpg. Maybe more. Impossible to measure. I have no idea if it is a great ROI measured directly. But if I think about how much I learned and how these mods and my fuel savings encourage me to keep the car, and then if I remember the cost of Prius in depreciation and insurance... well, every mod to "Black & Green" has pretty good ROI.
Out of curiosity, how far can you go on a trip completely alternator-less without going below your 50% threshold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Air dams are considered to be most of the benefit of a belly pan with only a fraction of the work, but all of the cool kids have belly pans...
Since when does an ecomodder care about being cool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
I am not now, nor have I ever been a cool kid...
Exactly!
__________________
Silver Aero, 2004 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic.
Personal driving:

Pizza delivery:


My trips driving the stock, non-ecomodded family minivan. Mostly highway driving. I generally average 30 city, 33 highway with it.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 07:19 PM   #134 (permalink)
Gen 1 Insight Hunter
 
mpg_numbers_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Virginia
Posts: 424

Silver Aero (Personal Driving) - '04 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic
Team Honda
90 day: 49.92 mpg (US)

Family Minivan (my driving only) - '04 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited
90 day: 31.96 mpg (US)

Silver Aero (Pizza Delivery) - '04 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 137
Thanked 76 Times in 66 Posts
Decided to go out and get started on my side skirts mock-ups today.

I first measured and cut a piece of cardboard to size. Dimensions used were a semicircle with a 15" radius with two inches below it, as follows:



I then propped it up against the wheel well to get an idea worked in my head of how to go about building and attaching the skirts:



I then used metal plumbers tape to create brackets similar to what California98Civic and MetroMPG did with theirs. I bent the tape double to add rigidity to it. If it holds, great, if not I'll buy flat copper or aluminum bars to work with.

They actually held well on their own to the wheel well:




I bent the lower brackets outward slightly so the skirt wouldn't touch the wheel (currently it's about 1/16" away from touching...not sure if that's okay or not).

Here's the passenger wheel skirt mounted (zip ties were not tied at the time of the photo):

NOTE: this is only the test model the final version will be waterproofed with silver duct tape just like all my other ecomods.




Note on that last picture - my trunk lid isn't removed, it's just open.

Didn't test its durability today but will do so tomorrow. The brackets and skirts offer good mounting places for rear wheel spats, something I'll add when I install the final version of the skirts.

While I had my stuff out I decided to label my car:



I'll update it as my post-ecomodding FE changes tank by tank.

Planning on ordering an official Ecomodder sticker at some point...when I get around to it lol.

Also built a holder for my phone, for Torque fuel economy monitoring of course. Sometimes DIY goes too far:

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled (2).png
Views:	45
Size:	3.7 KB
ID:	24108   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_131253_404.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	48.1 KB
ID:	24109   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_134755_074.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	24110   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_134805_930.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	49.2 KB
ID:	24111   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_142420_596.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	40.2 KB
ID:	24112  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_142436_212.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	40.6 KB
ID:	24113   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_152159_951.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	41.0 KB
ID:	24114   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20180506_152311_925.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	42.8 KB
ID:	24115  
__________________
Silver Aero, 2004 Honda Civic EX Sedan Automatic.
Personal driving:

Pizza delivery:


My trips driving the stock, non-ecomodded family minivan. Mostly highway driving. I generally average 30 city, 33 highway with it.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 08:06 PM   #135 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,684

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 34.82 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 34.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,895
Thanked 1,245 Times in 927 Posts
Not normie cool, but Ecomodder cool.

I once saw some clickbait about some genius college kid that saved a huge amount of money by making his own laptop stand. I say clickbait because it was stupid. It was basically a modified pizza box.

If it is stupid and it works and all of that.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2018, 09:30 PM   #136 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,891

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 59.89 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,710
Thanked 1,394 Times in 955 Posts
Nice work with the skirts, hey!

Yes, shift down to keep RPMs above 1600. You may even be able to feel when the car turns off the fuel injectors a second or two after you begin to coast in gear with a warmed-up engine you might feel a slight shudder or hesitation for an instant. That's it happening. But you don't always feel it.

As for battery, it depends on a few variables, such as day or night, music or now music, lots of stops where I have to key on. But in ideal conditions I can go the 25 miles round trip to work without using the alternator at all. Usually, I start using the alternator on DFCO as soon as the engine is warmed up.
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 01:08 AM   #137 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 717
Thanks: 40
Thanked 72 Times in 58 Posts
While in dfco, it is ok to use the AC!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 10:42 AM   #138 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,891

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 59.89 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,710
Thanked 1,394 Times in 955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by teoman View Post
While in dfco, it is ok to use the AC!
So true. I do this all the time in my wife's automatic trans Subaru. Full blast while the electricity is "free" !!
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 03:24 PM   #139 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 717
Thanks: 40
Thanked 72 Times in 58 Posts
The ac feature really should be automatic or a button on the gear shifter.

While it is free use as much of it as possible!

Especially for those of us who live in dense areas and us the brakes a lot.

If i remember correctly my first set of brake pads lasted 67k km. The dealer was impressed. In some environments, no matter how hard you try it is unavoidable. Had the car been configured differently the brakes could have lasted a lot longer and i would have wasted less fuel on ac and various other accessories.

Last edited by teoman; 05-07-2018 at 03:30 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 03:39 PM   #140 (permalink)
Tyrant-at-large
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 1,033

Little Red - retired - '05 Honda Civic EX
90 day: 49.03 mpg (US)

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
90 day: 53.98 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 855 Times in 428 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
I've thought of this, but wouldn't the reduced weight reduce coasting ability? Like, when going down even a slight downhill my MPGs jump to like 85...wouldn't the weight reduction require the generation of more momentum in cruising, thus cancelling out the benefit from the lighter weight?
I'm thinking back to my high school physics here, so someone jump in if I get something wrong--several factors would seem to be in play here:

-acceleration due to gravity: acts the same on bodies regardless of mass
-momentum: proportional to mass and velocity
-rolling resistance: proportional to the product of Crr (which increases with mass), velocity, vehicle mass, and gravity

Assuming identical drag area for two cars with different masses, the question is: does the heavier car benefit from its extra mass by the proportional increase in momentum?

The heavier car will be disadvantaged in requiring more force to accelerate to a given velocity and to maintain it (since a car, even at a steady speed, is acted on by acceleration--the twin forces of aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance are constantly acting on it opposite to the direction of travel, requiring acceleration to maintain a given velocity). The heavier car will also be disadvantaged by more losses to rolling resistance while it is coasting or cruising.

So, the question above becomes: Does the increased momentum of the heavier car outweigh the increased rolling resistance and the necessary increase in force (and power) to achieve a given velocity in the first place? My gut says no--you can't get more energy out of the system than you put into it, and you're suffering more losses (reduced efficiency) during the coast or cruise itself because of the increase in rolling resistance; so the increased coasting distance and increased momentum during cruise likely isn't going to offset the increased fuel required to get up to speed and maintain it compared to the lighter car. But, I suppose you'd have to sit down and actually use your vehicle mass, BSFC, etc. and get some real numbers. (If, for instance, the increased mass puts the throttle in a more open position and at a better BSFC to achieve the same acceleration, it might end up being more efficient).

__________________

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vman455 For This Useful Post:
mpg_numbers_guy (05-07-2018), Xist (05-07-2018)
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
7th gen civic, automatic transmission, build thread, civic auto, honda civic

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com