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Old 01-25-2025, 01:28 PM   #301 (permalink)
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E-motor "supercharger" also with manual transmission?

I admire your motivation and ingenuity! I'd been considering doing this kind of thing with a European manual car from the 1970s, i.e. where the technology is very basic, and there's loads of room in the engine compartment! I really like the idea of the e-motor driving the crank pulley via a belt, thereby taking load off the engine directly. I am assuming that your Subaru has automatic transmission. I suspect that that might work better than manual in this situation, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm basically hoping that manual tramission will be no hindrance to doing a project like this. I'm sorry I don't have advice for YOU, but I don't have a hairswidth of the experience that you do in this area :-/ Thank you!

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Old 01-25-2025, 04:31 PM   #302 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ademonrower View Post
I admire your motivation and ingenuity! I'd been considering doing this kind of thing with a European manual car from the 1970s, i.e. where the technology is very basic, and there's loads of room in the engine compartment! I really like the idea of the e-motor driving the crank pulley via a belt, thereby taking load off the engine directly. I am assuming that your Subaru has automatic transmission. I suspect that that might work better than manual in this situation, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm basically hoping that manual tramission will be no hindrance to doing a project like this. I'm sorry I don't have advice for YOU, but I don't have a hairswidth of the experience that you do in this area :-/ Thank you!
I do too. It's just all those extra controls I feel would be better integrated with the existing controls.
Combining the throttle with the motor throttle and the brakes with regen should work OK and quite easy.
I haven t read this thread in a while and dont know what your skill and research level is so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff.

NB the the belt pulls on the PULLeys of the ancillaries.
So when the engines crank pulley is pulling on the belt its under tension until after the last ancillary.
After that it would be slack back to the crankshaft if it wasn't for a spring loaded tensioner 'pulley'.

When the pulling is elsewhere on the belt and pulling on the crankshaft pulley, the slack is on the other side... So 2 tensioners are required.

Also look at the mountings of the various ancillaries.
Are they strong enough to handle the extra tension on the belt?

Also NB that this method does not work if the engine is off as you then have to drag the engine along through a whole lot of compression etc strokes.

As you're in Germany your neighbor is likely to have a lathe and milling machine in his garage and do excellent work.
He will be able to build an electric motor into your gearbox before the gearing.
ie: You keep the gearing, allowing you to get away with a cheaper smaller motor, just like the one for your original plan.

This way the engine only drags on the motor when the clutch is engaged and you get to drive with the main engine off and get better/more regen.

The disadvantage is the constantly depressed clutch and constant turning of the clutch release bearing that is likely to wear is out way sooner time wise.
Also the other ancillaries on the engine belt stop working, as does your engine vacuum powered brake assist.
With EVs at the scrapyard nowadays you should be able to find electrically driven replacements for all these.
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Old 01-26-2025, 06:09 AM   #303 (permalink)
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Very good points

Many thanks for those very good points! Thank you also for making one thing clear: that if I can get the machining done, or do it myself (fortunately I have a lathe), the motor before the gearbox would be the better option. There are a few manual transmission hybrid cars these days, e.g. the Fiat 500 and Ford Fiesta... must be a few on scrap yards somewhere. Fiesta would be good, because it's nearer in weight to my car. I have no idea, but I might be able, essentially, to use the components and electronics, adapting them around my car. I think this one rates as "ninja" on the scale of Ecomodder modifications, right? :-)
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Old 01-27-2025, 03:51 AM   #304 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ademonrower View Post
Many thanks for those very good points! Thank you also for making one thing clear: that if I can get the machining done, or do it myself (fortunately I have a lathe), the motor before the gearbox would be the better option. There are a few manual transmission hybrid cars these days, e.g. the Fiat 500 and Ford Fiesta... must be a few on scrap yards somewhere. Fiesta would be good, because it's nearer in weight to my car. I have no idea, but I might be able, essentially, to use the components and electronics, adapting them around my car. I think this one rates as "ninja" on the scale of Ecomodder modifications, right? :-)
"...I have a lathe..." See; I knew that! lol!

You're talking about those Motor-Generator-Starters that fit between the engine and gearbox on some hybrid models right?
They may be made to fit with an adapter plate/s etc, or perhaps fit the whole clutch-motor-gearbox assembly to your engine/car if the ratios and specs are similar enough.
That's certainly Up-There as far as an Ecomod goes.

I would say that putting a gear that matches the gear teeth on the input and/or counter shaft on a motor and fitting/mounting it to the gearbox is likely the better cheaper option.
You might even be able to mount the motor direct to the end of the counter shat if the motors rpms match. It all depends on your specific gearbox.
(You may have to mod the car's transmission tunnel some, somewhere to make space for the motor, but that's not a biggey)

(This shows the gearbox basics for those wondering)


This shows cutting and weldng engine crankcases etc to make a 2 cylinder from 2 one cylinders.
As similar modding to your gearbox would be required, it serves to show that cutting, welding and machining a gearbox like casing is pretty straight forward. Inspiration!


One last thing: While a PM magnet motor is efficient it would 'drag' on the engine when not in use.
A motor with a DC rotor winding is cheaper and you can just cut power to the rotor for coasting (most efficient conservation of energy) and when you don't want to use it like if there's a fault somewhere.

Playing with the rotor voltage opens up all sorts of opportunities! (higher rpm ranges, settings to match controller/regen, etc)
So this cheaper motor option may end up being more efficient overall..?
Some of the alternator stuff being looked at:
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-1702/10/6/478
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Old 01-27-2025, 04:09 AM   #305 (permalink)
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Very useful details: thank you!

Thank you very much for those very useful details: much for me to think about! I have a couple of pals who could help me. I even know someone who converted an old Volvo 850 to complete electric, but I'm not going to do that: need the car for longer journeys :-) er, and it wouldn't be much of a classic anymore...
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Old 01-27-2025, 05:40 PM   #306 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ademonrower View Post
Thank you very much for those very useful details: much for me to think about! I have a couple of pals who could help me. I even know someone who converted an old Volvo 850 to complete electric, but I'm not going to do that: need the car for longer journeys :-) er, and it wouldn't be much of a classic anymore...
Pleasure
Shout if you want to conference call and throw ideas around etc with your friends.
Or just post.

Complete electric:
Nope! See the video here:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...dea-41675.html

Put a motor and have it go like a bat out of hell when you want it to!
Then start tuning the engine!
This here is the Nth degree IMHO.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...awd-28776.html

But no need to go that far!

IF you're interested:
On a 70s car a simple head skim for higher compression using the available high octane fuel may be a good start. (takes some measuring and maths)

I'd gas flow to head using pre shaped Pferd Flap Wheels while it was off.
(People forget about the intake manifold and exhaust matching and especially the gaskets here. Engineer's Blue is your friend!)
There's way more to it if you like.

People here like hot air intakes as they're simple.
I think post pressure (higher boiling point) adjustable fuel heating may be a better option if you want to keep performance up..?

As you have a lathe you might find this interesting...
https://www.google.com/search?client...&bih=906&dpr=1

Then, as it's a 70s car/engine with km's on it, IF you're broad minded, research:
Dr Ali Erdemir Argonne National Labs DOE Boric Acid in Oil Lubricant.

Apparently God will strike you down and blow up your engine if you even think about thinking of trying it!
But its been tested and is synergistic with the main additives in engine oils and has also been lab tested with good results in cars and diesel engines.

There will be 'shouting' etc but what the hell. That's all fact. Just direct all that to the relevant thread.

Some pics from research.







https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2013/09/77152.pdf#:~:text=Unlike%20other%20anti%2Dfriction %20and%20%2Dwear%20additives%2C%20which,boric%20ac id%20is%20a%20natural%20mineral%20(known
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Old 01-28-2025, 04:12 AM   #307 (permalink)
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Great efficiency mods for a 70s car

WOW! I am impressed! Thank you very much for those extremely helpful and generous suggestions! Will look into them soonest. I had, indeed, heard of boron-compound additives. They seem to be better at reducing friction and wear than molybdenum-based ones, but I hadn't yet found such a detailed analysis as the one you sent: much appreciated! I understand that it's a tricky business adding things to oil, because some of them might react with the additives already in modern oils. However, it appears that the boron compounds are very inert and temperature-resistant. I had up to now been adding an organic zinc compound to my oil. These were dropped as soon as cars had catalytic converters, because the tiny amounts of zinc compounds in the exhaust gas could, over many 1000s miles poison the catalyst. My car doesn't have a catalytic converter (the US was miles ahead of Europe in that respect! Shame on us :-)
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Old 01-28-2025, 06:36 AM   #308 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ademonrower View Post
WOW! I am impressed! Thank you very much for those extremely helpful and generous suggestions! Will look into them soonest. I had, indeed, heard of boron-compound additives. They seem to be better at reducing friction and wear than molybdenum-based ones, but I hadn't yet found such a detailed analysis as the one you sent: much appreciated! I understand that it's a tricky business adding things to oil, because some of them might react with the additives already in modern oils. However, it appears that the boron compounds are very inert and temperature-resistant. I had up to now been adding an organic zinc compound to my oil. These were dropped as soon as cars had catalytic converters, because the tiny amounts of zinc compounds in the exhaust gas could, over many 1000s miles poison the catalyst. My car doesn't have a catalytic converter (the US was miles ahead of Europe in that respect! Shame on us :-)
Catalysts:
IMHO the exhaust catalyst/s in the wrong place!
Intake Catalysts is what we need!

Pyrolysis: If one heats fuel (no air) with say exhaust heat you end up with Methane type gases that burn faster and thus more completely.
Gas carbs have been in 'inside use' forklifts and things for ages so as not to kill people in the building.

After that;
Steam Reformation:
Water + the above Methane-ish gasses = Hydrogen + Carbon Monoxide.
H20+HCs = H2 + CO
The industrial process happens at around the temperatures reached by exhaust close to the engine, but at MUCH higher pressures.
(They use up to 90% water! IIRC)

You can go more temperature and less pressure for the same to better reaction speed.
That's what the MIT etc's plasmatrons (you can easily turn on your lathe) do.
ie: pyrolyse and steam with waste heat, then add the extra heat/temperature with an arc.

Water-Gas Shift Reaction:
Carbon Monoxide + Water = Hydrogen + Carbon Dioxide
C0 + H2O = H2 +CO2
Happens at lower temperature than Steam Reformation so can be implemented downstream (cooled) of a the above. (with or without a Plasmatron)

All these reactions can be improved by catalysts like Zinc (wool or whatever) and Copper.
Copper is special in that, unlike most metals, heating it reduces it from 'rusty' to bright hot cooper..!
(pgfpro is planning to copper plate the cylinder head, valves and piston tops of an engine due to a study showing that this improved engines by catalytic formation of H2 'in cylinder')

So intake Catalyst:
Pyrolyse fuel and produce steam with waste exhaust heat.
No reason the liquids cant be metered and mixed and heated together in say a copper pipe wrapped around the exhaust manifold.

Then a giant spark plug, aka; Plasmatron to add the temperature for Steam Reformation without pressure.
Then you want to cool the gas before intake, so a copper or Zinc or etc (interior plated) intercooler, possibly with copper or Zinc or etc plated Steel wool in it.
Then to a Gas-Carb to be mixed with air, and into the engine.

NB that even if only Pyrolysis happens you're still better off, so the H2 (if any) is a bonus.
(The lower flammability limit of H2 in air is only 4%...)

Gas fuel takes up space that would normally be occupied by air (oxygen) leading to less power per engine size. A Turbo 'fixes' this.

Exhaust is now 'clean' enough not to kill people and the reactions that happened in exhaust catalysts are replaced by reactions that improve combustion/economy/emissions.

If you want to clean up the exhaust; a centrifuge will remove (the much heavier) particulates like carbon (soot) and oils. As both are lubricious they can be returned to the intake where:
Red hot Carbon; C(ht) + H20 (from combustion) = H + CO at the temperatures of combustion...

ye; I know what you are thinking:
"IF all this is possible, why isn't it in every car!??"
Once people disabuse themselves of the silly notion that the oil industry has the best interests of the public at heart and GREAT (financial) power....!
(a thought that seems to go over most heads)
They probably own majority shares in the motor/engine industry.
(via shell companies if you look at what happened to the MIT Plasmatron)

I take the trouble to tell you all this as you are from a nation of engineers and fabricators where things are made perfect + 10% in every second garage.
Most countries: "Yes but can I buy one at Walmart? No? Then why bother talking all that sh!t at me!?"
I like and admire the German people's engineering and perfectionist workmanship as much as they do mine.


Boric Acid:
Is... er.. very controversial here. (to the point the same oil/motor industry seems to have a hand in the discussion!)
If we take it further here the thread will devolve into a dung flinging contest.
There will be a thread on that later. (Lotsa chem reactions etc to fully understand but I'm close)
I'll let you know>

But in the meantime NB that people mix different engine etc oil brands all the time, adding whatever's on the shelf at the gas station they happen to be at.
The formulators work with that knowledge as the last thing they want is: "I put in a can of (Brand Name) and my engine seized!!"
ie: Additives are carefully chosen to be compatible with any/all alternates.
Sludge seems to be the only side effect and Boric Acid loosens it which can be an issue for oil pump pickups with very fine sieves, as found in VW engines in my experience.

Last edited by Logic; 01-28-2025 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 01-28-2025, 06:49 AM   #309 (permalink)
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Amazing knowledge: more should know this!

I'm very impressed with your knowledge and thinking in this area! Thank you! You migh well be interested in my book. I'm a biochemist, and so I wrote a (bio)chemist's view of energy and material economies. I also revealed some unpleasant truths about the EV revolution, and the as yet un-realized benefits of eFuels. See here: https://global.oup.com/academic/prod...-9780197664834
...and also here: https://andrewmoorescientist.com where most of the energy/mobility themes in the book are also covered, and an extra one, hydrogen, is described in much more detail. Interesting times, and I just hope that politicians understand all of this, and make the right decisions in the interests of sustainability (of all kinds).
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Old 01-29-2025, 12:20 AM   #310 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ademonrower View Post
I'm very impressed with your knowledge and thinking in this area! Thank you! You migh well be interested in my book. I'm a biochemist, and so I wrote a (bio)chemist's view of energy and material economies. I also revealed some unpleasant truths about the EV revolution, and the as yet un-realized benefits of eFuels. See here: https://global.oup.com/academic/prod...-9780197664834
...and also here: https://andrewmoorescientist.com where most of the energy/mobility themes in the book are also covered, and an extra one, hydrogen, is described in much more detail. Interesting times, and I just hope that politicians understand all of this, and make the right decisions in the interests of sustainability (of all kinds).

Thx!
That is not obvious to ...er many. Especially here.
My thoughts go deeper than that on the subject, but not here...

"...I'm a biochemist..."
Ah-ha!
See https://www.longecity.org/forum/user/21762-logic/
The sites more about biohacking and longevity.
I have no formal training but did a LOT of research. At 1st reading a paper took a week or more just to look up the biological terms/words used.
Well after ~6 years the trained biologists etc there started paying attention when I posted and some of my er... 'joining the dots' is now in products.
D-limonene cancels 'Garlic (DMSO) Stink' for instance.


Your Site:
In my bookmarks and open atm. Thx!
I agree that the Bunny Huggers who think they're green because they don't smell gasoline or exhaust in their immediate area are... delusional, to put it nicely.

The research you have done (that I have read so far) is invaluable to the planet IMHO, but of the sort that will be studied intensively by many, only when it's (almost, hopefully) too late.
I'll certainly keep reading thx.
So far I would say your page deserves it's own thread here.

Do check out Edison Motors and their Series hybrid logging trucks etc.
A registered, running, hauling logs prototype in one year.
That their last crowdfunding thing was over/filled in like 3 hours restores a bit of faith in humanity.
They are talking about gas powered gensets in the trucks, but need to think a bit harder on all that IMHO to be competitive for long haul trucks.


Politicians:
Understand only one thing: How to say absolutely nothing, using the most words possible, while not offending anyone.
That should be a death sentence, not a lucrative vocation IMHO!

The only thing that's come of that is that idiots that actually wucking fotch them on TV have decided to be 'offeeeeeended!' about everything and have started a 'trucking fend' amongst all the other idiots in the world. ie: The majority!
Know of a genetically engineered er... substance specific to stupid..?

Rant over!

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