EPA may fine VW

[COcyclist]

Many of the operating conditions that make diesels powerful, efficient and cleaner allow them to produce oxides of nitrogen or NOX. NOX can be a dangerous air pollutant at high concentrations causing breathing problems. However, many of us want a TDI because we live in the wide open spaces where NOX dissipates before it causes any harm. IMHO greenhouse gasses like CO2 are a much greater global threat. I would trade a little NOX for a diesel that produces less soot, makes more power and gets better mpg. EGR is used to lower NOX but it doesn't make a diesel run better. So shame on VW for trying to give us something we want to drive.

[Xist]

How is the TDI versus Prius debate going now?

It seems that there are certain things that the "experts" says and people accept religiously. Diesel is dirty, automatics are more efficient, and speeding is safer than driving the speed limit. Whenever people find out that someone considers an alternative, out come the pitchforks and torches.

[PressEnter[]]

Im curious how things will shake out. Can't say I'm entirely happy with VW right now.

[markweatherill]

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf

Cool! I personally hate the EPA/CARB, it's a huge money making scam to force people to buy new cars. That's why I gutted the cats on my Insight, and will be running a straight pipe on my Mustang with a good tune.

Yeah! There's plenty of fresh air left! If it ever does become a problem, we can always import some.




As for VW, the ghost of Hitler just called, he didn't say anything, just chuckled for a while.

[RedDevil]

VW: ObNOxious?

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

The first time I was in Cali in the '80s I was literally sick the whole time from the clearly visible L.A. smog. And that was when I was young and healthy and had no known allergies. If it's better now, clearly something was done right.

When I was first here in 1994 I visited on a throwback kinda day (lucky me) and got to feel the eye burn and see the waterless fog. In 9 years living in the region now, I have not seen a day like it. Very grateful for that.

Originally Posted by Baltothewolf

Funny, I suppose the ban of lead based fuel and cars not running rich 100% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with the decrease in smog - eyeroll-. The emissions standards now are absolutely ridiculous. In CA my Mustang has 4 cats, I can cut 2 off and STILL pass the sniffer. It's all a money making scheme. C.A.R.B. Is an absolute joke.

You are using something of the logic VW did: if it does not pollute in the band the test check, then it is not polluting. Likely, the CATS you cut away are for running conditions not specifically tested at 15mph and 25 mph. And how are you passkng visual inspection? Anything missing from the OEM system produces an immediate fail.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by markweatherill

Yeah! There's plenty of fresh air left! If it ever does become a problem, we can always import some.

As for VW, the ghost of Hitler just called, he didn't say anything, just chuckled for a while.

There are many more serious threats to health that are more deserving of money and effort than NOx emissions. Why does Europe find the emissions of diesel cars acceptable but not the U.S.?

...and Godwin's Law only took 29 posts.

Originally Posted by California98Civic

And how are you passkng visual inspection? Anything missing from the OEM system produces an immediate fail.

Smog checks are a joke and should either be reformed or eliminated. Many cars are given a passing grade despite having failed the test. In Oregon, you merely have to register your vehicle in any other city than the few that require smog checks to be performed.

LA Times Article

The random tests were conducted by California Highway Patrol and Bureau of Automotive Repair officials between 2000 and 2006. They found that 19% of the stopped vehicles failed tailpipe checks within a year of having received passing grades at testing stations. Additional inspection of the car's pollution systems, such as fuel evaporation controls, brought the proportion of failures to 31%.

[Cash68]

K, I want to know if this is actually a big deal in terms of emissions, or the media blowing things out of proportions (like they always do).

I get that it's illegal...

but to the TDIs in question emit more or less pollution than a Ford F150?

[UFO]

I've had a little trouble putting the scale of the pollution into perspective, but I suspect the actual pollution is still less than earlier VW designs. Compared to a gasoline vehicle, diesels emit less of most pollutants, but do put out more NOx due to the nature of the engine having higher combustion temperatures. This results in better mileage, but also more oxides of nitrogen, which is difficult to scrub. I also suspect it is easier for diesel engine manufacturers to prevent the formation of NOx rather than treat the exhaust, but that comes at the expense of engine performance.

Obviously VW was wrong to cheat the system, but it gave them an advantage in the diesel market. Everyone else had to put in NOx pollution scrubbers, and VW avoided much of that.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Cash68

K, I want to know if this is actually a big deal in terms of emissions, or the media blowing things out of proportions (like they always do).

I get that it's illegal...

but to the TDIs in question emit more or less pollution than a Ford F150?

If you get better MPG your overall pollution is always less at 22lbs of pollution per gallon.

What the EPA is upset over is that instead of .4ppm the cars emit up to
16ppm, which is still less than most 90's era vehicles.