EV Price Discussion

[Snax]

Originally Posted by sendler

Ride sharing in college towns will replace car ownership for students anyway.

Not convinced of that. ZipCar came and went, and Uber and Lyft are prohibitively expensive for regular use. The only thing I see really being a hit here right now is bike-sharing.

I think ride-sharing simply provides additional options for students who generally would not own a car anyway.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Snax

I think college towns have their own unique housing issues. Few landlords near campus or on convenient commute routes are going to give a rip about whether students can charge an electric car.

It's disappointing because my building (32 units) and the new one going up next door (30+ units) are in downtown Champaign, ~1.5 miles from campus. The community here is "young professional"--professors, not students, live in these buildings. And still the landlords don't really care.

[Snax]

I don't believe Illinois has done diddly squat to promote EV purchases, unlike most of the coastal states. Here on the hippy-dippy left coast, charger installations are getting subsidized.

It's pretty crazy actually how fast they are getting turned on.

Before I bought my i3 in November, I could not find a complete DC fast charger route that would suit my needs from Seattle to LA, but after checking today, the dark stretches have nearly vanished. It would still take 20-30 minutes a stop, but it is now at least feasible with a little patience if I skip the gas stops.

[Snax]

Also just saw this article, and this is why I think we will be looking at a much steeper adoption curve soon as oil companies are actually co-locating fast charging.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/21/petro...-gas-stations/

[ldjessee00]

More major fueling companies have started programs like this:
Shell: https://www.shell.us/business-custom...hargeplus.html
BP: https://electrek.co/2018/06/28/bp-ma...y-oil-industr/

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sendler

1 year old appartment building with a planned life cycle of 100? years that has no thought of ev charging. Does it have ground source heat pumps for heat and cooling?

I'm a landlord, so I understand having zero incentive to care about how efficient a rental unit is. The AC unit at one property looks like it was built when they invented AC, or shortly thereafter. It works though, so I have no reason to replace it.

One property I used to live in has many efficiency upgrades that I made, and now that I'm renting it out and covering the utilities cost out of my pocket, I have incentive to make saving energy and water as easy and automatic as possible.

My apt complex has a wall mounted air-source heat pump similar to what hotel rooms have. I was surprised it even had that considering landlords don't care how much you spend on heating. It's probably among the cheapest and least efficient though. The water heater is the least efficient, along with the fridge. Faucet aerators aren't efficient or effective.

Originally Posted by Snax

Also just saw this article, and this is why I think we will be looking at a much steeper adoption curve soon as oil companies are actually co-locating fast charging.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/21/petro...-gas-stations/

What about that article suggests a rapid adoption curve? There's no money in EV charging, especially fast charging. The hurdle to EV adoption isn't lack of fast charging infrastructure anyhow; it's the massively inferior in every way "fuel tank" called the battery.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

There's no money in EV charging, especially fast charging

I don't know about that. Most Level 2 chargers around here charge $1.50 to $3.00 per hour. That is for between 3.3 and 6.6 kWh of electricity. A 100 to 900% markup on the local electricity rate doesn't sound bad. Installed cost is about $6,000 for a public charger. (Way less for residential or employee installations)

[redpoint5]

Well, I did say fast charging, meaning DCFC. Demand cost is too much and income too little.

The only way to make money is to displace gas pumps and charge 500% markup on junk food. Forcing people to spend 30 minutes+ presents new sales opportunities.

There's no money in charging, but perhaps in a captive (bored) audience.

[Snax]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Well, I did say fast charging, meaning DCFC. Demand cost is too much and income too little.

The only way to make money is to displace gas pumps and charge 500% markup on junk food. Forcing people to spend 30 minutes+ presents new sales opportunities.

There's no money in charging, but perhaps in a captive (bored) audience.

I think that is part of the theory behind installing them. Partnering up with shops or other food services to make charging stations pseudo-destinations is going to win out over other locations charging the same amount without those services.

[RedDevil]

If you have a shop but don't have charging points, or only expensive ones, that's going to drive EV owning customers away. So there's an incentive to keep availability high and costs low.

Most people will be able to charge at home or at their destinations and may never need fast charging except for long road trips. Even so EV manufacturers do have an incentive to keep fast charging available and affordable; Tesla even built their own supercharger network.