Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-12-2014, 08:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,581

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,526
Thanked 3,366 Times in 2,120 Posts
EV School busses/mobile power storage devices

The Billion-Dollar Potential Of The Ordinary American School Bus

Quote:
...A group of companies operating a Clinton Global Initiative grant envision a zero-emissions future for school buses that's far more versatile. They're working with the schools to retrofit six school buses that double as rolling generators in their spare time.

Once their appointed rounds are complete, these school buses can be used to make additional money for their owners by charging their new electric battery packs at off-peak hours and later selling the electricity back to power companies at higher prices during high-demand times. During power outages or other emergencies, the buses could transform into mobile generators used to power hospitals, command posts or other critical places...
Except they aren't GENERATORS (that threw me a loop at first).

__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-18-2019)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-12-2014, 09:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
P-hack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,408

awesomer - '04 Toyota prius
Thanks: 102
Thanked 249 Times in 201 Posts
That sounds like the most dubious business plan I ever heard of. If they don't get a contract with the utility for some guarantees on the rates, they will be screwed in no time. As well as reducing the cycle life on the batteries, those "new" batteries won't be new for long (plus charge/discharge losses). If it were cost effective, the utilities would just add stationary batteries to the network.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to P-hack For This Useful Post:
Cobb (12-12-2014)
Old 12-12-2014, 09:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,581

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,526
Thanked 3,366 Times in 2,120 Posts
The great thing about doing this with school busses is there is no- I repeat NO- amount of spending too outlandish for school districts. It is easy to spend other people's money, and it's just as easy to invest it in things that may or may not pay off.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
Cobb (12-12-2014)
Old 12-12-2014, 10:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 276 Times in 226 Posts
Ive read about tons of people who go solar with a setup to sell back to the power company. They are always screwed on the fees for the metering and kw amount. They rather go gridless or never of setup the metering in the first place.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2015, 10:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 67
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Im not so sure this is a terrible thing! I mean if implemented correctly I could see electric school bus's becoming very mainstream. And as far as a mobile generator I think they mean it can replace a generator. That could be useful to move around energy in power outage situations.

Look at Hurricane Sandy or other Natural disasters. These could be used to power critical infrastructure.

I still the idea of an electric self powered trailer makes the most sense. You can use the same idea then with moving energy around. Making it self powered would allow connecting to I.C.E vehicles to make a short range ev or an extended range hybrid.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2015, 12:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModder Student
 
esoneson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Youngsville, NC
Posts: 117
Thanks: 11
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
????????????????????????????
Let me see....... 1) you use electric buses to shuttle kids to school and back home during the day. 2) you charge up the depleted batteries with electricity you purchase from the electric company at night. 3) Somehow magically you are able to sell huge amounts of electricity back to the electric company for billions of dollars. But all you did was replenish the batteries with electricity until they are "full" and paid the electric company. Electricity comes in, money goes out. Somehow this Clinton Grant is generating money from thin air. "I did not have sex with that woman."
__________________
1995 BMW 318i EV in the making
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to esoneson For This Useful Post:
Xist (01-17-2015)
Old 01-17-2015, 01:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,861
Thanks: 3,405
Thanked 4,562 Times in 3,632 Posts
School buses are usually parked in open-air lots. With the latest solar panels being competitive with coal power, installing them on the roofs of school buses would provide portable power that could be commandeered in cases of natural disaster.

Quote:
Somehow this Clinton Grant is generating money from thin air. "I did not have sex with that woman."
This is about load-balancing.

I didn't either.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2015, 03:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AZ
Posts: 67
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by esoneson View Post
????????????????????????????
Let me see....... 1) you use electric buses to shuttle kids to school and back home during the day. 2) you charge up the depleted batteries with electricity you purchase from the electric company at night. 3) Somehow magically you are able to sell huge amounts of electricity back to the electric company for billions of dollars. But all you did was replenish the batteries with electricity until they are "full" and paid the electric company. Electricity comes in, money goes out. Somehow this Clinton Grant is generating money from thin air. "I did not have sex with that woman."

Theres something called peak power costs, With our power company here they offer a 3 hour plan from 3-6 m-f the rate is 31.1 kwh the rest of the time is 9 cents kwh. If you charge your battery at 9 cents and the discharge it back to the grid at 31.1cents you gain $$$ do you get it?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2015, 06:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
I can see where it could appear that there was $$$ to be made.

However basing a business model on the accounting methods of another company that you will have no control over doesn't seem sound.

Once you invest millions on the infrastructure they could just add a clause to the electricity prices limiting the large peak period feed in rate to just the first say 30kW.
This wouldn't affect most individual customers home solar feed in set up but would eliminate any profit from your business.
Or as more people put solar on their roofs they may drop the feed in price. That is what happened here. The government let a collection of senior executives from various electricity companies get together and decide what a "fair" price would be for feed in during peak periods. Surprise, surprise they decided that a bit less that the wholesale price for off peak electricity would be a fair price. We went from a 33 cent feed in to a 6.5 cent feed in. Off peak supply price is about 13 cents and peak supply price is about 34 cents plus another 6 cents if you want electricity from a renewable source. Must be hard to make a profit with those figures.

Also as mentioned, the buses need what they charge up with at off peak rates to actually drive around. So there would be no surplus to feed back in at peak times.

As for using them for emergency power during a disaster. I would expect all available buses would be getting used to move people around rather than sitting plugged into a building.
Also once the buses charge ran out it would be impractical to attempt to recharge it in situ. And with it's charge depleted it won't be going anywhere under its own power.
For emergencies a big diesel generator with a big fuel tank mounted in a standard shipping container form factor is the easiest to move long distances and the easiest to refuel in the field.

The only use i could see the buses being put to other than being a bus would be as a load leveller. Connected to the grid and supplying some power for short voltage sag events where the bus can be quickly topped back up after the grid recovers. Useful but not profitable.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (01-17-2015), Xist (01-17-2015)
Old 01-17-2015, 06:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
Not Doug
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Show Low, AZ
Posts: 8,135

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 35.35 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.1 mpg (US)

Mom's grandmamobile - '06 Toyota Camry SE
Thanks: 5,210
Thanked 1,515 Times in 1,151 Posts
I remember reading something about electric buses. I did a quick search and this was the most relevant thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...bus-23334.html

It is actually hardly relevant, although this one goes into the costs to drive a bus: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...sel-17511.html

Quote:
In most cases, a city bus weighs from 25,000 pounds to 40,000 pounds.
How much does a city bus weigh

Quote:
On the average, a 38', 84 passenger school bus weighs in between 11 & 14 Tons (22,000 to 28,000 pounds) curb weight without passengers.
How much does a school bus weigh

What does weighing 60% more do in start-and-stop traffic?

At my bus yard, some of our buses had covered parking, although I believe it was just the special-needs buses. The VA and some other government buildings out here have solar-covered parking, which is supposed to save the government money. Generally, people on here say that solar panels would be best positioned somewhere stationary, and used to charge the vehicle when parked.

People here think that it gets cold, but I disagree. I have a covered parking spot, which does not make my car any colder, because I leave for work while it is still dark, but it magically prevents frost from building up.

How well does covered parking work in cold places?

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com