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Old 01-17-2015, 08:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Theres something called peak power costs, With our power company here they offer a 3 hour plan from 3-6 m-f the rate is 31.1 kwh the rest of the time is 9 cents kwh. If you charge your battery at 9 cents and the discharge it back to the grid at 31.1cents you gain $$$ do you get it?

So this model has nothing to do with buses, children or schools. These items are there to deceive the public into thinking that this scheme is for the common good......for the children.....for education......for safety..... You can eliminate the buses altogether and just install battery packs at locations to be charged at night and discharged during the day. And these locations no not have to be at schools.

And as Astro mentions (thank you Astro) the remaining model relies solely on the local electric company charge structure which could (and would) change to benefit the electric company if there was money to be made. Competition is a good thing and somewhat predictable and would eliminate this model's effectiveness in making money "for the children".

Bottom line here is the government knows nothing about effectively running a business and NEEDS to lie about it in order to sell the idea.

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Old 01-18-2015, 02:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think some one is trying to cook up an another "alternative energy" scam.

A few years a go the federal government was giving away billions of dollars to start up solar panel manufactures. They took the money and closed their doors with in a year, once all the money was hidden, I mean gone. After this happened about 50 times, over the course of 2 or 3 years, the exact same way each and every time the government eventually got wise to them.

There was another one of these start ups that wanted to make natural gas powered vehicles built especially for disabled people. The federal government gave them millions upon millions of dollars just so they could figure out most places didn't have CNG and there really wasn't any market for their product. When the money was gone the doors closed for good.

A prime example of your tax dollars hard at work.

So if you have a totally stupid idea (doesn't have to be original) that can bring together school children or disabled people, alternative energy in the name of saving the world from the global warming bogie man you too can get a ridiculous amount of other peoples money form the government to piss away.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The only political system that scales to global proportions is anarchism. The growth of Internet establishes that as fact. The Maker movement shows us direction. This is a story that provides a case in point.
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by esoneson View Post
So this model has nothing to do with buses, children or schools. These items are there to deceive the public into thinking that this scheme is for the common good......for the children.....for education......for safety..... You can eliminate the buses altogether and just install battery packs at locations to be charged at night and discharged during the day. And these locations no not have to be at schools.

And as Astro mentions (thank you Astro) the remaining model relies solely on the local electric company charge structure which could (and would) change to benefit the electric company if there was money to be made. Competition is a good thing and somewhat predictable and would eliminate this model's effectiveness in making money "for the children".

Bottom line here is the government knows nothing about effectively running a business and NEEDS to lie about it in order to sell the idea.



I was only replying to his mocking of how charging something then discharging it at a later time makes no sense.... because it does.
But not on a moving platform like a bus, It would make sense stationary near large renewable resources.


But as far as the original idea goes, I dont think its as ridiculous as your saying. If they can power the buses with electricity I would think it would be much cheaper than ICE buses. Its being done with alot of fleets currently. Maybe CNG or LNG in areas?

But with EV buses they can be used for a whole lot more than just school needs. You want to talk about business. How much do you think Barrett Jackson spent on mobile generators for lights at their Scottsdale auction? Those diesel generators can be cheap and neither is diesel. A local school system could "rent" buses for these purposes MAKING money.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It is still a good idea!

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Old 09-09-2019, 04:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The vehicle to grid doesn't appear to be going anywhere.
The OEMs don't seem interestedin talking to utilities.
Unless the bus depo is next to a sub station your max grid connection is probably less than 1 mega watt.
That's like 2,000 amps of 480v power.

Then in grid scale a few mega watts isn't really a lot.

Mobile power stations sure. That could work.
How much will it cost and would municipalities really be interested in spending money on something they may never use?
When it comes to disaster preparedness, robustness, backups, redundancy most bean counters won't allow it or keep it to less than the bare minimum.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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EVs are in the very beginning of the technology adoption curve. It wouldn't make sense to deploy infrastructure for technology that barely exists in the market. I assume at some point in the future this will change and that V2G stands a good chance of being developed.



The Japanese charging standard incorporates V2G capability, and my guess is that v2.0 of J1772 will likewise incorporate a provision for sending power in the other direction.

If battery capacity gets cheap enough, people will be purchasing batteries simply to avoid using electricity from the grid when it's expensive, and perhaps sell it back at that rate.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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It is still a good idea!
I guess the Mandela Effect is real. I distinctly remember posting about that in the last few days, but Google search denies that it ever happened. Of course I can search on the URL of the video and it says 'No result found'.

Anyways, won't someone think of the children. Less exposure to diesel particulates will increase their collective IQ.

And the proposition is to spend $11B and save $3B a month thereafter.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Darn straight I'm in innovator.
I built my own private charging infrastructure, but if I had a 40kwh or bigger EV I wouldnt really need it most of the year.
Chademo was always intended to be 2 directional and all chademo vehicles made since about 2013 can send power 2 directions already.
J1772, CSS and tesla would pretty much have to be completely redesigned. That would start with year model no one knows.

I think electric buses a good idea. At least for most of the fleet.
But it's 4 years later and almost nothing has happened with vehicle to grid, so that part is still kind of pipe dreamie.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm for electric buses, but not for the federal government getting involved. That's absolutely far, far outside the scope of federal government. Citizens should be demanding them from their local governments, and a corresponding decrease in their property taxes with the money saved.

I think our DMV finally accepts debit cards and mostly uses electronic records... 20 years after I began accepting debit and using electronic records. I expect school buses will go electric about 20 years after everyone else is driving EVs, or 45 years from now.

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