Focus Electric Sales Woes

[mechman600]

Yeah, powerful AC systems are not available for the DIY market - yet, although the AC75 comes close. (120Nm from 0-6000 rpm, 75kW peak, over 60kW up to 13K RPM - but ridiculously expensive).

I was thinking 9" Netgain with a big Soliton controller and a pile of CALB lithium. A 5-speed manual to keep things exciting and less appliance-like.

I realize that most people aren't in the position to do a conversion, so the economics of a store-bought EV must be looked at. And so far these economics do not look good for making the EV "the next big thing."

[thingstodo]

Originally Posted by razor02097

I think the new electric cars are still a niche market...

All that aside...there are still many hurdles to owning an all electric vehicle that some people just can't get over. For example I park on a driveway or sometimes on the side of the street... How the heck would I plug in at night

Niche market - agreed.

Hurdles to owning electric - if you don't have a garage to charge it in - agreed.

I may not actually BUY one ... but it would be nice to have the OPTION to buy one, or lease one, and have it serviced in the province.

[Ryland]

I think they need to get a lot more people test driving them, people are buying Tesla's because they like the feel of driving an electric car, they make driving a gasoline powered car feel clunky and rough, because gasoline powered cars are and there are a lot of people out there who once they compare them side by side will pick the one that is smoother even tho it costs more.
I see vehicles driving around all the time that cost $40,000 to $80,000, I was in a Toyota Minivan the other day that had a list price new of $41,000 and was bought because it was smoother and nicer to drive then the other options!

Sure electric vehicles save you in fuel costs and if you look at the math on upkeep you will come out ahead in the long run, unless you only buy used vehicles then your options are wide open!

[wdb]

If I had shorter commutes I would be all over an electric vehicle. And therein, I think, lies the rub; most people can't get where they need to go and back again on a single charge.

[razor02097]

The thing about electric cars are you always have sacrifice. A battery pack is always going to be larger and much much heavier than a fuel tank. All of the systems that run such as power brakes, heater and accessories takes little or some or (in the case of vacuum operated devices) no additional power from a piston driven engine where as running those same systems on an electric vehicle can cripple a battery pack's range. The biggest hurdle is the range and time it takes to charge the battery.

Although electric vehicles have come far there are still many quirks and hurdles people aren't willing to deal with. If I owned an electric vehicle I could not take it on the 700 mile trip I do every year...period. I wonder what ever happened to the honda clarity idea? I guess the idea died because hydrogen is even less available than electric outlets but at least it used a fuel which can be replenished quickly and can be scaled to fit the range needs of a customer.

[NeilBlanchard]

Electric cars are incredibly efficient - the *lowest* MPGe rating is 89MPGe for the Tesla Model S. Which only one of the best performing 5 seat (or *7*!!) sedans ever. Electric cars are simply 2-3 times more efficient than all the ICE cars.

If you have not driven an EV, then you owe it to yourself to do so. Even a "slow" EV like the Mitsubishi i MiEV is a revelation because it is so smooth and quiet and quick when you need it most. Cars with the battery pack in the floor (Leaf, i MiEV, Fit EV, Tesla included) also are surprising in that they handle better than you might expect. The Model S in particular has its Cg just 16" above the ground - it handles *better* because it is electric.

If you charge it at night, you can drive an EV for *lower* cost than you would pay for just the regular maintenance on a ICE. To put this another way - you can drive a Leaf for 100,000 miles and *save* about $17,000 vs an average 23MPG car driven the same distance.

The initial cost of electric cars is the main hurdle they have to overcome. And that is improving, with the Leaf S leading the way. The Smart Electric Drive will also lower the cost of owning an EV; and we'll see how GM prices their Spark EV, etc. I think that if they can improve the range, then the higher purchase price will be less of a hurdle.

I think the key thing that makes big manufacturers very hesitant to go ahead and sell as many EV's as they can is the near total lack of any income for maintenance of EV's.

One of the reasons that I am building my own high-efficiency electric car is to try and show what the potential for electric cars is - with today's batteries, it is possible to have a range of 300-400 miles. It all comes down to the efficiency of the car itself - which largely comes down to having low aerodynamic drag.

My challenge to all the auto makers is - who will be the first to build a car that can consume 100-150Wh/mile or less? The EV1 was this good, and Dave Cloud's Dolphin and the Illuminati Motor Works 'Seven', and the SIM-LEI and SIM-WIL, and the Edison2 eVLC, the Trev, and best of all the SolarWorld GT - all these cars can achieve this level of high efficiency.

If the Leaf was as efficient as the EV1, it would have a range of about 140 miles. That car would sell much better, don't you think?

[razor02097]

The EV1 was an engineers project. The accountants couldn't wait to shut it down. When GM decided to cut bait that was a devastating blow to the modern electric car.

As time marches on and consumers demand more modern conveniences and safety the EV will have an uphill battle the entire way.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The initial cost of electric cars is the main hurdle they have to overcome.

I agree that they tend to cost more than the equivalent ICE vehicle. However that is not what stops me. Because, as you note:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

If you charge it at night, you can drive an EV for *lower* cost than you would pay for just the regular maintenance on a ICE. To put this another way - you can drive a Leaf for 100,000 miles and *save* about $17,000 vs an average 23MPG car driven the same distance.

I think the key thing that makes big manufacturers very hesitant to go ahead and sell as many EV's as they can is the near total lack of any income for maintenance of EV's.

I must disagree. I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of guy, and the fact is that most people do *nothing* *whatsoever* to their cars themselves, so the dealer's repair shop will still get business. It's the range that stops people. The range, and the knowledge that if one exceeds it, one can't just call AAA.

If the Leaf was as efficient as the EV1, it would have a range of about 140 miles. That car would sell much better, don't you think?

Yes I do. I'd very seriously consider a sub-$40K electric car with 140 mile range. It would handle one of my commutes with ease, and darn near handle the other. And since I know a bunch of smart hypermiling people, I might be able to stretch 140 miles into 180...

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by wdb

therein, I think, lies the rub; most people can't get where they need to go and back again on a single charge.

You're actually the exception. The majority of Americans' daily car use is well below the range of a car like the Leaf or iMiEV, even considering the winter range hit. (For those who actually get winter.)

For households with 2 vehicles and a place to plug in, an EV would be a no-brainer as one of those vehicles if purchase price wasn't the issue.

Anecdotal evidence from a couple of people I've talked to in that category (2 car households, 1 ICE, 1 EV) is they end up making the EV their "primary" car because it's nicer to drive & cheaper to run. The ICE ends up sitting around a lot, only used for longer trips or when both cars are needed at once.

[mort]

Originally Posted by wdb

The range, and the knowledge that if one exceeds it, one can't just call AAA..

PR Newswire

During a news conference at the Plug-In 2011 Conference & Exposition, AAA announced it initially will deploy the trucks with mobile electric vehicle charging capability in six metropolitan areas across the U.S. as a pilot program, including Portland (Ore.), Seattle, the San Francisco Bay area, Los Angeles, Knoxville (Tenn.) and the Tampa Bay area. The phased rollout will begin later this summer and continue into the fall.

There are only 3 trucks in L.A. and they all downtown. But it is a start.
-mort