Freezing the Slushbox. Torque Converter on-demand lockup switch.

[RH77]

I went out for another test run to get a feel for how it's working.

You definitely have to pay attention for best use. This time around it was definitely disengaged at idle and not let to decel from 4th to a stop. If I shifted manually down to 3rd or disengaged it with the switch, decel was much smoother and longer.

At slow speeds, it works best to cruise -- at 27 MPH, it pops into 4th with partial lockup. I found that 21 TPS results in full lockup. It definitely lugs the engine to the point where I would shift if it were a manual.

But the best part is that it fully locks up and stays at highway speeds. Since EOC-ing began a few years ago, that rarely happens, and it was quick to unlock at the slightest press of the gas. FE increased about 7-8% on the test loop (which needs revised to compare to the usual cold-start on the particular trip, etc.)

It was semi-cold the second time around, which forces shifts at 2500 until warm. On very cold starts, it would make sense to let the parts warm up before subjecting them to early TC...

But yeah, I agree with the concerns of the slipping TCC. The best plan seems to be a brake-switch activated disconnect and/or just disengaging it on 4th-to-2nd deceleration situations and at very low speeds.

RH77

[Christ]

As I mentioned earlier, I'd likely use a NC momentary contact above the brake, so that when you touch the brakes, it unlocks.

A more elegant/time consuming solution would be to wire the switch so that it only gets power from the 4th gear solenoid's supply, and once you're out of 4th, it unlocks. I think you'll see even more gains if you can find a way to stay fully locked as soon as you're out of first gear, though, and just unlock for EOC or slowing down. Engine braking isn't likely to save you anything anyway, since you're a more efficient driver than many, so the ability to have full lock on decel isn't as necessary as it would be for someone else.

I think the way I'd work it, if possible, would be to power the solenoid with 2/3/4 gear, and add a momentary NC switch to the brake pedal, since you're probably in neutral any time you're purposely decelerating without the brakes anyway, or in my case, EOC any time you need to slow down when it's not a reaction to some unexpected environmental change.

[RH77]

(since the lockup has 3 stages, the abbreviation is S-1 for Stage-1, to make it easier)

I like the brake switch idea and keeping 1st gear out of the mix, but I noticed something on the route today that can be used as an advantageous example of full lock with gently angled grades and no throttle input...

There's a residential street with a 25 MPH limit that has a very gradual descent. I can EOC it, but it scrubs considerable speed (and is now a busy reroute for a detour). With 4th + S-3 at idle, I was getting around 80-90 MPG @ 27 MPH on a segment that normally is set to 3rd + S-1 lock at around 45 MPG and barely 25 MPH. Having that "Direct Connection" is amazing.

The stock setup uses lock on decel above 35 mph anyway (which is a real drag for most Honda-based autos, pun intended )

Another observation: once it gets into S-3 lock, it hangs there. If I disconnect it with the switch, and then re-engage it, the TC defaults to S-2 and needs the throttle back into 21 TPS to allow enough fluid pressure to engage it again from S-2 to 3. So, I'm hesitant to implement a trip disconnect when at idle. I don't have a whole lot of compression braking at 1500-2000 RPM, so rolling terrain with velocity at those engine speeds are rather efficient.

I could go back tighten the kick-down cable, so that it wouldn't take so much throttle to engage S-3 -- it's tricky because then kick-down is more sensitive. By and large, downshifting with the TC at S-3 is very hard shift (and really should be avoided). I can play with the cable and see what develops.

Ideally, I need an RPM-based trip. Decel is good until about 1050 RPM (only in 4th) and then theres a lug and vibration with odd noises (probably the worn exhaust, but not sure). I really can't think of an easy way to use RPM without hacking an electronic output (and is likely beyond my skillz) or some crazy tach-needle trip

Starting out with it on reminds me of a CVT or Diesel Truck/Bus with an Auto Trans -- first is short with immediate lockup (then manually lift-shifting keeps the RPMs down through the gears). Honestly, I don't crack 2-grand unless I've got my foot in it.

This is great discussion, many thanks for the input! This torque converter has been the most frustrating part of this car. Having any control over it is a step in the right direction

RH77

Originally Posted by Christ

As I mentioned earlier, I'd likely use a NC momentary contact above the brake, so that when you touch the brakes, it unlocks.

A more elegant/time consuming solution would be to wire the switch so that it only gets power from the 4th gear solenoid's supply, and once you're out of 4th, it unlocks. I think you'll see even more gains if you can find a way to stay fully locked as soon as you're out of first gear, though, and just unlock for EOC or slowing down. Engine braking isn't likely to save you anything anyway, since you're a more efficient driver than many, so the ability to have full lock on decel isn't as necessary as it would be for someone else.

I think the way I'd work it, if possible, would be to power the solenoid with 2/3/4 gear, and add a momentary NC switch to the brake pedal, since you're probably in neutral any time you're purposely decelerating without the brakes anyway, or in my case, EOC any time you need to slow down when it's not a reaction to some unexpected environmental change.

[Christ]

Rick -

Lookup "one wire Vtec"... it's a ricer mod that allowed the use of Vtec systems when the ECU wasn't designed for it.

Basically, wire an MSD RPM switch in, and when you get to whatever your "pill" is set to, you get a closed circuit. I'm sure you could set it up the other way around, as well.

[IsaacCarlson]

on which solenoid is turned on?

[Christ]

Rick -

MSD RPM Switch installation instructions/part numbers.

Here, you can find the RPM switch installation instructions. If you look around, you'll find a how-to on making your own "pills" to select the RPM range at which the switch is closed. I'd probably look into making one that closed the switch at 1300-1500, I think.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by IsaacCarlson

on which solenoid is turned on?

When energized, both solenoids 'A' and 'B' are engaged. This way, the TCU/ECU is independent of feedback, and simply uses the throttle cable to mechanically establish pressure to either engage partial lockup or full lockup (21TPS=Full). This way, idle throttle allows TCC slip so stall out does not occur. I usually just flip the switch when it gets down to when the engine makes grumbling noises -- 1100-1300 or so (or when D-Coast is required for longer engine-on coasts).

Originally Posted by Christ

Rick -

MSD RPM Switch installation instructions/part numbers.

Here, you can find the RPM switch installation instructions. If you look around, you'll find a how-to on making your own "pills" to select the RPM range at which the switch is closed. I'd probably look into making one that closed the switch at 1300-1500, I think.

Nice -- that sounds like a good solution. 1300 sounds about right.

RH77

[IsaacCarlson]

If it is on the output I should be able to EOC right? If not then DON'T?

[Christ]

Originally Posted by IsaacCarlson

If it is on the output I should be able to EOC right? If not then DON'T?

Check your owner's manual - it will tell you how far you can tow the vehicle with all four tires on the ground, and at what speed. Follow it when you EOC.

Don't worry about where your fluid pump is, it's not going to make a difference for the short distances you'll be coasting.

[99LeCouch]

4T60/4T65 can't EOC for long. Maybe a few blocks, if that. They're designed perfectly for use with an engine, and to be stationary when the engine's off.

The TCC lockup switch would be handy when running in 2nd gear. Otherwise 3rd at 30 mph for me has the engine at 1000 RPM. Check your gears, too. You might have the city 3.06 gears instead of the highway 2.86 gears like my Buick has.