The Gadgetman Groove: Latest Fuel Economy BS Hits NPR

[PA32R]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Mr Smalls: nice rational response to the inventor/promoter in the blog thread. (Assuming you posted as "Rob".)

Nah, that was me. I'm Rob Ryan. Since the comments re-opened on the blog post, I've replied to Dave there a couple of times as well, which then prompted me to write up a post in my own blog. I must say, as wacky as the videos are (125% increase in m.p.g.???), I think he and his posse really believe it.

Now maybe if they were wearing a holographic bracelet....

[Gadgetman]

I can't help but get a giggle over your comment!

Calling my customers my "Posse"! You know, it may be a little funny, but it's also kind of true! No one believes as much as I, except maybe for those who have experienced the modification first hand.

This is where I get a little annoyed at the posts here (and other places) where the posts are all about conjecture and hypothesis that contradicts the evidence at hand.

With so many positive reports, how is is that an individual can say they are all untrue?

How can any person justify denying the evidence, usually couched in terms approaching slander of the individual presenting the evidence?

What happened to the good old days, when researchers actually researched, rather than condemn the individual who comes with something new?

Well, thank you for the little chuckle.

For those of you not swayed by the negative opinions of those who have no experience with this technology, then feel free to hear what my clients have to say at [***]

My name is Ron Hatton.
I AM responsible.

[PA32R]

Ron commented at my blog post; I offered the following reply, I'm repeating it here in case he reads here and not there, sorry for the length:

There are several ways to test the Groove. As I've stated repeatedly, I'll be happy to participate by designing an appropriate experimental protocol and gathering and analyzing the data.

However, my time is all I'm willing to donate, the vehicles, the modifications, test track location rental, etc. will have to come from elsewhere.

On the Ecomodder site, a-b-a testing is the gold standard because they typically don't have the facilities to utilize identical vehicles, fuel cells, multiple test runs, etc. because they (we) are amateurs and hobbyists not selling a product.

A-b-a testing involves testing a given vehicle and noting the fuel economy, modifying it and doing the same, and then undoing the modification and retesting. Such a protocol could be implemented by running a vehicle dry, adding a measured five gallons on a controlled track, driving until empty, and logging the mileage. Remove the stock throttle body, add a "Grooved" body, repeat. Replace with the stock body, repeat.

While this would not provide reliable statistical data (blind testing, mean fuel economy with and without, standard deviation, confidence level of null hypothesis rejection, etc.), with the sorts of improvement you are claiming it should be indicative as to whether the results are plausible.

This constitutes repeatable evidence. Testimonials, no matter how heart felt, do not. You can find testimonials for "holographic bracelets," faith healing, and many others all over the internet. As I mentioned in the Ecomodder blog post, people will testify that Uri Geller can bend spoons with his mind.

If you will send me, via email, at tio540s1 at gmail dot com, the budget you're willing to invest in testing, I'll see if I can design a convincing test within that budget.

[Frank Lee]

Too bad the guy with the 26 mpg Chevy truck doesn't have a fuel log here.

[CigaR007]

I browsed the website and found nothing worthwhile pertaining to statistics demonstrating the advertised improvements. It's hard to believe a product when there's no data to back it up.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Since you have proven to me this site is not about truly exploring, but exercising your right to show how smart you are, I respectfully request you remove me from your list of users.

...meaningless emotional argument snipped...

Now, please erase me as a user. I have better things to do than to try to convince ANYONE like you... It cannot be done.

Thank you.

I thought you were supposed to be gone by now?

[PA32R]

Originally Posted by CigaR007

I browsed the website and found nothing worthwhile pertaining to statistics demonstrating the advertised improvements. It's hard to believe a product when there's no data to back it up.

The only test data I saw indicated no improvement. In fact, it indicated the opposite for both m.p.g. and emissions. To Hatton's credit, he put the data up on his site (although it's not there now you can see a bit of it in the blog post). When queried, he had a variety of excuses... er.... rationalizations.... ummm.... reasons why the test didn't accurately reflect the potential of the Groove.

He claims poverty but he represents that he's done 500 of these at anywhere from $100 to $500 per and there's no material other then Dremel Tool bits to purchase as far as I can tell. He also trains "Gadgetmen" and I assume gets a franchise fee or royalties or something for each "downstream" installation. I'd think it would be a good investment to have some independent testing done.

Unlike Frank Lee, I don't think he's a con man, I think he believes his spiel. But without data, and a lot of damn good data at that, I don't. I will say that I smiled at a stranger today and we were both glad.

[Frank Lee]

He knows it's a scam and that's why, after all this time, there are NO credible tests.

[mcrews]

I think he should run his test on frank lee's vihicles .....at frank lee's place......all by himself........

[Frank Lee]

Oooooh... a good time would be had by all!!!!

The test wouldn't even have to be fancy or expensive. I can think of dozens of colleges, universities, and tech schools in close proximity that could be approached with the proposal. Or even have an EMer with a track record of good testing do it. Basically, there are no excuses- time or money- not to have the third party verification.