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Old 11-20-2010, 09:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Saand: personally, I wouldn't test this mod without a lab/dynomometer.

If the mod isn't easily & quickly reversible for A-B-A testing under identical vehicle, speed & weather conditions, it allows too much variability to creep in.

Same reason I won't test fuel/oil additives.

Same reason I didn't test the difference between my standard & XFi camshaft.

And I maintain: it's not our job to test his product. If he's selling something, it's his responsibility to provide credible evidence to the consumer. (...Or be prepared to move on if he isn't willing to offer the level of evidence the consumer asks for.)

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Old 11-20-2010, 10:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Seems to me to be a pseudo spin off on the Somender Singh grooves from a few years back. It sounded good on the Singh grooves in the cylinder head and the rationale about turbulence.

The Singh grooves revelation has fallen into the silence of the experimental that did not transition into the practical, although its funny to see similar grooves radiating from the prechamber area of a 28 year old Mercedes diesel.

I am assuming it is some method of modification of the throttle body area of the induction system. If that assumption is correct then it should be reversible (swap throttle bodies) and therefore any benefit could be documented.

Is my thought process flawed?

regards
Mech
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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metrompg, i completely understand you not wanting to test it even just the effort in getting good results takes so much time its really only worth it if you have a fair idea you will get some benefit.

your quite right its not the job of ecomodders to test his device if nobody on here thinks it worthwhile

I would be interested to hear the scientific basis for how it works. For me at least that will be the deciding factor to see if its even worth testing or even discussing any further at all.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Very well....

Since you have proven to me this site is not about truly exploring, but exercising your right to show how smart you are, I respectfully request you remove me from your list of users.

Were it not for your very nicely worded reminders that you wanted to "tempt me back" I would have long ago left your discussions where they need to be: somewhere other than in my life.

Your demands for proof are not helping in the development of fuel efficiency technologies. You are directly impacting it in a negative way.

Further, I have not tried to sell you ANYTHING. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true, yet you continue to insult, demean and diminish my efforts to provide SOMETHING to this forum that would inspire someone to at the very LEAST accept my offer so I can get the data you DEMAND.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a bogus site, managed by bogus people with NO desire to make the changes necessary for this planet to become what it needs to become: Cleaner and greener.

You are a wonderful example of abuse of power, MetroMPG. It is all about YOUR accomplishments and that is all.

Please continue to enjoy your power to limit the truth, my friend.

I will continue to make as much a POSITIVE difference in the world around me as I can.

Now, please erase me as a user. I have better things to do than to try to convince ANYONE like you... It cannot be done.

Thank you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
This isn't data. It's still mostly testimonials.

The Panacea University test had my interest until I saw the (inherently flawed) on-road testing. So I wasn't surprised to discover there is of course no "Panacea University" in a list of accredited Australian universities & colleges (source).

---

Final warning, Gadgetman: because you're selling something, you must meet a higher standard than the average tinkerer who wants to discuss his latest mod.

So, I've removed the links to your videos, and am giving this warning: you're welcome to provide credible 3rd party evidence as to what your groove accomplishes. If you can't post that kind of information, stop posting on EcoModder. (Or you'll be banned.)

FYI, the "EPA Motor Vehicle Aftermarket Retrofit Device Evaluation Program" is an "EPA-approved" test methodology designed specifically for evaluating devices that claim to save fuel or reduce emissions.
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm tempted to post a response to the above, but I don't think there's a lot to be gained. Your words speak for themselves.

So, as requested, your email is off the reminder list.

If you ever undertake proper 3rd party testing of your product/service, you are always welcome to share the results here. Good luck with your business.
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:41 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
I used these facts to convince MetLife to finally change a nationally distributed ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO LTC that had be WRONG for 9 years
That's cool . Congrats!
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:56 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Gadgetman said: "Your demands for proof are not helping in the development of fuel efficiency technologies. You are directly impacting it in a negative way."

That is the most ________________________________(fill-in the black) sentence I have ever read..............I am stunned. THe guy doesn't have a tin ear........he has NO ear.

Let me say, what I know I have said before. For a 'general web form' (not 'scientific' 'nuclear engineers, bio-scientists etc) this is the most open-minded, intellegent, thought provoking, stimulating, enlightening forum I am on. THat guy is really clueless. My really only complaint was when the moderator took down the posts on hood ornements.....wasn't that it Frank Lee.......you remember, the hood ornamets that were drapped clear across the hood (wink) (smile) (blush).
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ECO MODS PERFORMED:
First: ScangaugeII
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eii-23306.html

Second: Grille Block
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-10912-2.html

Third: Full underbelly pan
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...q45-11402.html

Fourth: rear skirts and 30.4mpg on trip!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post247938
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
That's cool . Congrats!
Thank you very much.
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MetroMPG: "Get the MPG gauge - it turns driving into a fuel & money saving game."

ECO MODS PERFORMED:
First: ScangaugeII
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eii-23306.html

Second: Grille Block
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-10912-2.html

Third: Full underbelly pan
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...q45-11402.html

Fourth: rear skirts and 30.4mpg on trip!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post247938
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Those are gone?!?
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
I am assuming it is some method of modification of the throttle body area of the induction system. If that assumption is correct then it should be reversible (swap throttle bodies) and therefore any benefit could be documented.


Apparently, the idea is to allow air to somehow travel around the throttle plate with reduced restriction, therefore reduced pumping loss past the plate. The idea itself sounds possible in theory, but I severely doubt that this modification results in a 20% or more fuel economy gain.

There's also the matter of the increased airflow around the throttle plate. How are you supposed to control engine output with this larger-than normal opening around the throttle plate?

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