Gasoline VAPOR?

[racprops]

Well this has been an interesting talk.

All of you have made interesting points.

Many have made me consider if this is anything at all.

But many points did not shut down the concept completely.

There is too many main stream stories of Gasoline vapor, and of standard high mileage cars:

Like this:

https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/08...ars-1978-1981/

https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/22...mpg-cars-1990/

https://drivesmartwarranty.com/car-c...000s-2000-2010

https://www.motherearthnews.com/sust...s-zb0z11zblon/

And there are cars outside the US that are reported to do better.

Like the VW Blue Motion:

The stand-alone BlueMotion models carried a hefty price premium over the equivalent, standard car when new. Despite achieving significantly better fuel economy – up to 88.3mpg in the Golf BlueMotion – it took a lot of miles for the savings on fuel to even out the extra purchase cost. As such, they didn’t sell particularly well in the UK.


FYI That is 73.53 MPG using us Gallons.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/volksw...tion-explained

I learned of this car and a couple others in a TV show called Top Gear where they did a range driving test:

An English TV show Top Gear Series 12 Ep. 4 Summary: This week's challenge is to drive from Basel in Switzerland, to the north west coast of England. This must be done on just one tank of petrol - no splashing and dashing in France, just one tank. The first to arrive - if any do - gets the honor of switching on Blackpool's illuminations. Some 740 Miles. Air Date: November 23, 2008

So one car is a Volkswagen Polo Blue Motion, a Diesel 3 cylinder that is rated at 75MPG!!!!! and has a 10 Gal. tank driven by Richard Hammond. The second car driven by James May was a Subaru Legacy diesel rated at 50MPG and has a larger tank lastly. Jeremy Clarkson shows up with a Jaguar XJ diesel, this is a full sized car with four doors etc. His plan was to run out of gas near London and thus go home, it was rated at 35MPG.

What happened?? First ALL three cars made the 740 Mile trip!!! What is even more insane was at the end of this show Jeremy Clarkson whom did NOT drive sanely until he had passed London was very surprised the Jag made it by wait there is more, he reported the shows engineers checked how much gas was left in the tank and reported that the Jag could have gone 260 Miles MORE that meant the Jag had a range of 1000 MILE per tank.

And again that is ONLY 832.67MPG on us Gallons.

These numbers show that we within the USA are not getting the best MPG cars.

There seems to be a effort to make our cars use a lot more fuel that needed.

It has been reported because our cars are required to run cats, there are programs in our PCMs to feed them, that with a lean burn cats will go cold due to lack of fuel to light them up. So they prevent this from happening.

I often think all this is a case of smoke and mirrors.

I think the fix is in.

Cars have done better MPG in the past.

It just seems that with all the almost unbelievable tech we now see in cars they still cannot even match some of the cars of the 70s and 80s.

And how most of those cars are not made in the USA.

Rich

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by racprops

It has been reported because our cars are required to run cats, there are programs in our PCMs to feed them, that with a lean burn cats will go cold due to lack of fuel to light them up. So they prevent this from happening.

Is it a conspiracy or just the fact that going lean and using less fuel also means making more NOx emissions?

This is what killed the diesel car. It's a great fuel efficient engine, but there's a sort of tug-o-war between better efficiency and better NOx emissions. You need fuel in a catalytic converter in order to reduce NOx to CO2 and N2. The VW diesel scandal was the result of the engine squirting unburnt diesel fuel down the exhaust during testing and not doing it during normal driving. As a result the car got 60mpg, but terrible NOx emissions.

[Ecky]

The G1 Honda Insight (2000-2006) ran at a 24:1 AFR. It had two catalytic converters and they worked fine.

To achieve this it would drop out of lean burn every 5 minutes or so, for ~10 seconds, to reheat the cat. The fuel economy hit from this was negligible.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by racprops

I agree with you on all points.

And I do have an idea on how to make vapor safely and to control demand.

Rich

Propane and done.

[racprops]

I know about NOx, and have read of two fixes, add EGR or water.

Some cars now have to have a special water type added, so people are learning to add water as well as fuel.

Also I know of NOx catalytic converters.

Rich

[oil pan 4]

What production cars use water added in to reduce nox?
I have no doubt it would work but getting it past the stupid and useless ethanol production agency is a whole other matter.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

What production cars use water added in to reduce nox?
I have no doubt it would work but getting it past the stupid and useless ethanol production agency is a whole other matter.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

A limited number of road vehicles with forced induction engines from manufacturers such as Chrysler have included water injection. The 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire was delivered with the Turbo Jetfire engine.[7]

In 2015 BMW has introduced a version of their high performance M4 coupe, the M4 GTS, that combines water injection with intercooling. The car was featured in the 2015 MotoGP season as the official safety car for the series and was released for the commercial market in 2016.[8] As per BMW example, current engine developments featuring water injection seem to concentrate on the effect of “Performance Improvement”. But by the mid 2020s, engine development will shift focus also on improved fuel consumption, due to the pressure on CO2 emissions reduction and related regulations.[9][10]

Bosch, which co-developed the technology with BMW, offers a water injection system named WaterBoost for other manufacturers. The company claims up to 5% increase in engine performance, up to 4% decrease in CO2 emissions and up to 13% improvement in fuel economy.[11] Similar results were reported in "Water Injection - High Power and High Efficiency combined"[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_...in_automobiles

With the old Chrystlers the problem was that owners would forget to fill the water tank. As a result they would blow the engine.

A way to get around this is to condense water out of the exhaust.

[freebeard]

oldsjetfire.com: Jetfire Turbo Rocket Fluid/

The original anti-detonation fluid was straight water, but that would freeze in the cold climate states, so methanol was added to suppress the freezing point. The Olds engineers found the mixture with methanol actually gave the engine about a 5 horse power boost, bring the rated horse power up to the magical 215, 1 HP per Cubic Inch!

The water soluble lubricant was added to the mixture to “coat” the rubber components in the Turbo Rocket Fluid delivery system to minimize the leaching of plasticizers from the rubber components, that would make them brittle and non-flexible. Methanol is hard on rubber components!

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_...in_automobiles

With the old Chrystlers the problem was that owners would forget to fill the water tank. As a result they would blow the engine.

A way to get around this is to condense water out of the exhaust.

Don't care about the 1960s. Nothing internal combustion made then would come any where near being able to be sold today.
BMW appears to be using it to increase super charged performance.
The botch one doesn't say if it's for gas or diesel. Those stats, 5% more power, 4% less co2, 13% more fuel economy sounds exactly like running water injection on a diesel.
The only way a gas engine can benefit from water for fuel economy is if it was designed around it. Then the problem is you have to use water all the time and better make sure you run out of gas before you run out of water.
Still have to get it passed the epa.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

What production cars use water added in to reduce nox?
I have no doubt it would work but getting it past the stupid and useless ethanol production agency is a whole other matter.

It’s only used in mining equipment and is sometimes called a water scrubber

By far you get the cleanest exhaust doing this, explains why folks are considering scavenging water from exhaust for pollution controls, because a expansion/freeze resistant bottle combined with someone dumping a glassful of water in every day is too hard.

If you want even more effective pollution controls, ocean water cleans exhaust in much small amounts , does wonders for steel components as well

The blow the engine issue would no longer be a problem with computerized controls, drop to 60hp and folks would get the bottle filled.