A gift for HHO Skeptics!

[Isaac Zackary]

Originally Posted by niky

Which is basically what anyone and everyone looking at the various methods of combustion enhancement already knows.

Honestly... water is already an effective method of enabling ultra-lean burn... there's no need to go the extra step of splitting it into oxygen and hydrogen through a wasteful, energy-intensive process.

Bosch Water Injection Designed to Cut Fuel Consumption and Carbon Emissions

Nice article. Although it's not up on its facts. The BMW M4 GTS isn't the first production car to have a water injection system. The 1962 Oldsmobile F85 had water injection. I think BMW likes to make these kind of things up. A while ago they were bragging of being the first to use a magnesium engine block when my 1972 VW has an all original magnesium crankcase.

But don't think I haven't thought about doing that, although the concept between water injection and HHO is quite different. Too bad my car's carbureted or I'd have installed one of these a while ago:

Aquamist direct

I might do it to the diesel some day. But the -40°F it reaches here in the winter would make it prohibitive to implement water injection all year.

[oil pan 4]

Water injection typically lowers the fuel economy on gasoline engines.

[Isaac Zackary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Water injection typically lowers the fuel economy on gasoline engines.

True. Typically it does. But if you can use it to up the compression ratio and ran leaner than stoichiometric even at full load the gains can outweigh the losses. It also needs to be precisely metered in order to maintain an optimum air/fuel/water ratio. The Aquamist system is about as precise as you can find. I could make it work if I put on a Mega Squirt system to run just the water injection. But in that case I might as well as convert the whole engine to fuel injection and at the same time finding a water spray jet small enough for my 1600cc engine would be difficult.

And actually if I were to dump $5,000 into such a water injection system (that's about what I figured) I might as well as make an electric pusher trailer with ultra capacitors instead for the regenerative braking since I do 90% of my driving stop and go.

[oil pan 4]

That is what I am going to try and do with my high compression 8L engine. That 11:1 compression engine should idle fine be able to do some lean burn, cruise down the road on regular gas.
Then I was going to use water and methanol to make it continue to run well at wide open throttle where premium would be needed.
I have to make it work or I will be stuck buying premium gas which costs 40 to 60 cents more per gallon.
When the engine was installed in my suburban, when it was a 7.4L about a 20% increase in fuel milage by setting up the carburetor for lean burn.
First round with the 7.4L I put a slightly under sized carb on there, tuned it for lean burn.
This time I am trying high compression, more cubic inches, lean burn, a larger but still under sized carb and water/methanol injection.

[Isaac Zackary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

That is what I am going to try and do with my high compression 8L engine. That 11:1 compression engine should idle fine be able to do some lean burn, cruise down the road on regular gas.
Then I was going to use water and methanol to make it continue to run well at wide open throttle where premium would be needed.
I have to make it work or I will be stuck buying premium gas which costs 40 to 60 cents more per gallon.
When the engine was installed in my suburban, when it was a 7.4L about a 20% increase in fuel milage by setting up the carburetor for lean burn.
First round with the 7.4L I put a slightly under sized carb on there, tuned it for lean burn.
This time I am trying high compression, more cubic inches, lean burn, a larger but still under sized carb and water/methanol injection.

Cool! May I ask what you're trying to accomplish with adding more cubic inches (more displacement)?

[t vago]

The idea behind lean burn in a gasoline engine is to reduce fuel consumption by lowering the amount of intake manifold vacuum that must be produced by the engine, on top of the work the engine already has to do to overcome drivetrain losses and push the vehicle down the road.

I think I shall restart my investigation of an alternate method of lowering intake manifold vacuum by the selective use of EGR at part-throttle cruise conditions.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zackary

Cool! May I ask what you're trying to accomplish with adding more cubic inches (more displacement)?

More torque at lower RPM.

[gumby79]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zackary

I might do it to the diesel some day. But the -40°F it reaches here in the winter would make it prohibitive to implement water injection all year.

One reason for methanol in water/meth injection is the meth is the antifreeze in your sub zero windshield washer juce.

--- oilpan
Your argument agenst HHO is that,"in most cases HHO is brake even " as in no loss but more importantly you no gain. You typically recommend water/meth in place of HHO as its all positive(if you dont count the +$5 /ga for meth , this price is baced on the last time I purchased some cerca2000 im shure that inflation has changed the price. ) then you state .
[Quote =oilpan]
Water injection typically lowers the fuel economy on gasoline engines.[/QUOTE] . Pleas use your arm chair quarter back science to dissmantal the studies done by NASA proving.
looks like its 159 tons /year more efficient. On co2 alone . At a .48% by volume.

[oil pan 4]

Windshield washer fluid is around a $1.50 a gallon for 40% alcohol. I don't want or need pure methanol.

You take everything I say out of context.
Water methanol will also not give any improvement on most if not all production engines. I am talking about using water methanol on a custom built high compression blue printed engine and only under acceleration and wide open throttle. Then I can burn regular gasoline at idle and cruise. The water methanol will not be used at cruise. The water methanol will not directly increase fuel economy. My hope is that the water methanol can be added to help the regular gas preform more like premium gas when needed.
What part of that sounds like hho?

I don't think hho is "break even" . I think it's a complete waste of time and resources. Hho is one of those things that can be made to work in the lab but fails to make the transition to the real world where the perfect conditions needed to make it work rarely ever exist.

I don't think water methanol is a direct replacement for hho. Water methanol has actual effects on an engine where most if not all attempts to implement hho fail or just lower fuel economy.

Read the links in the water injection wiki. Most if not all attempts to add water to a gasoline engine lowered it's fuel economy. Again in a lab where the testers have full control over all the variables it set be made to work.

[Air-Hybrid]

Haven't been on here for years and often came looking on the Unicorn Corral purely for a laugh but I've been asked about the following 'product' and am having a hard time pointing out why it would be false.
The guy behind it (pushing HHO @ http://www.hydrogeninjectiontechnology.com) claims to have had independent testing done on truck diesels with this system. The main question is, does anyone know if 'California Environmental Engineering' is legit and if so, whether the tests they've supposedly carried out really support an improvement in BSFC (of 10-20%)?
Thanks.