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Old 03-26-2017, 07:51 PM   #171 (permalink)
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The EPA published a report saying that water injection can improve diesel fuel economy by 6%.
I tested a basic water injection rig on my diesel and it improved fuel milage 4%.

Government mandated emissions junk is reducing fuel economy by 5 to 10MPG on diesel pickup trucks. A modern fuel injection system with a response tune will produce hardly any soot and get the fuel economy of a full size car.

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Old 03-27-2017, 12:35 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Amen to that.

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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
That "government mandated junk" is what keeps our cities from looking like the smog choked hellholes you find in the developing world. It is telling to be in a factory and watch a US spec truck fire up compared to the export trucks without even a particulate filter.
The legislated requirements have improved the air in the Los Angeles Basin but the total concentration of people in the bowl is causing air quality to worsen - the first time in decades.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:38 PM   #173 (permalink)
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What testing did you do?

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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
I work for a truck manufacturer. We would love to increase fuel economy 5% with HHO if it worked AND we could meet required emission requirements. However it doesn't work. As you mentioned to get improved fuel economy you have to use tuning that fails emissions. It is a deadend for ligitimate companies.
We would be interested to hear about that. It adds to the knowledge base.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:09 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
The legislated requirements have improved the air in the Los Angeles Basin but the total concentration of people in the bowl is causing air quality to worsen - the first time in decades.
Very true and that is why trucks need to get cleaner and cleaner just to keep the status quo let alone improve air quality in urban centers. We have more and more trucks on the road hauling goods for more and more people.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:36 AM   #175 (permalink)
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I have looked at Water Injection as well and this guy seems to have nailed why it works, as well as how it works.
maxxTORQUE: Pre-Turbo Diesel Water Injection

WI lowers NOx formation but increases particulates and other products of incomplete combustion. I think free hydrogen (or syngas) does the opposite.

The methanol in water-meth injection has an added advantage that it is also an oxygen carrier, but the cooling effects of WI should keep temps low, to lessen NOx formation.

Forgetting HHO for now, what happens if I inject water (vapour) and hydrogen (elemental H2) together in smallish amounts on say, a big rig?
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Old 03-28-2017, 02:04 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Thanks for that link.

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Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid View Post
I have looked at Water Injection as well and this guy seems to have nailed why it works, as well as how it works.
maxxTORQUE: Pre-Turbo Diesel Water Injection

WI lowers NOx formation but increases particulates and other products of incomplete combustion. I think free hydrogen (or syngas) does the opposite.

The methanol in water-meth injection has an added advantage that it is also an oxygen carrier, but the cooling effects of WI should keep temps low, to lessen NOx formation.

Forgetting HHO for now, what happens if I inject water (vapour) and hydrogen (elemental H2) together in smallish amounts on say, a big rig?
Keeping with the topic at hand, the link author misses a few points that pertain to HHO. Water does dissociate. Even at room temperature. That's why it has a pH. Look it up.

This is the problem, Brown's Gas or HHO as produced in a crude electrolysis cell is producing copious amounts of water vapor and trace amounts of ozone along with the H2 and O2. This affects combustion in complex ways. Nothing that will get you "double your mileage" but there is an effect.

The idea of small amounts of dry H2 and water vapor is an intriguing idea.
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:29 PM   #177 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
The idea of small amounts of dry H2 and water vapor is an intriguing idea.
Check out articles/research on Reformed Exhaust Gas Recirculation (REGR) - this is a means to make syngas (H2 rich gas) from diesel exhaust reacted with a small amount of fresh fuel, that is then mixed into the intake air.

Though I appreciate this is not a homebrew level bit of tech, I am looking into a catalyst that could make syngas/hydrogen in a more low-tech way.

What I really like with these sort of approaches is that some of the waste heat is (in an indirect way) being utilised to improve the chemistry.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:35 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Adding any lite fuel in small amounts will boost the power of a diesel.
my dad liked to use a propane its a cryogenic fuel
So drops intake temps and it's cheap and easy to get
As far as hho no that's not going to work it's expensive to make on-board and f-ing dangerous to store in any useful amounts
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:51 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
We would be interested to hear about that. It adds to the knowledge base.
If you want to know where truck technology is going look at the SuperTruck program. Peterbilt, Navistar, Volvo, and Daimler participated and all were able to double fuel economy. The technologies used are unremarkably similar: Advanced aero, reduced weight, advanced electronic controls. That is the future.

https://www.trucks.com/2016/10/31/su...-5-year-phase/

The second round of the supertruck program kicked off in 2016. Cummings, Navistar, Daimler, and Volvo will participate.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:30 AM   #180 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air-Hybrid View Post
Check out articles/research on Reformed Exhaust Gas Recirculation (REGR) - this is a means to make syngas (H2 rich gas) from diesel exhaust reacted with a small amount of fresh fuel, that is then mixed into the intake air.

Though I appreciate this is not a homebrew level bit of tech, I am looking into a catalyst that could make syngas/hydrogen in a more low-tech way.

What I really like with these sort of approaches is that some of the waste heat is (in an indirect way) being utilised to improve the chemistry.
If you want to make your own syngas catalyst do what the oil companies do. Expose the heavier fuel to a catalyst like platinum or palladium such as found in an catalytic converter within an oxygen starved, to oxygen free environment.

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2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.

Last edited by oil pan 4; 04-17-2017 at 10:38 AM..
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