A gift for HHO Skeptics!

[Xist]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

And my name isn't Jesus.

I have a friend named Jesus.

Good man.

[P-hack]

Many of his associates are complete tools though.

[Xist]

Not that I am suggesting it (even with carbon sequestration), but I am surprised that I have not heard any claims about steam reforming, except that I doubt that too many people know what it is.

Wikipedia says that it is a no-go at multiple levels:

The energy content of the produced hydrogen is less than the energy content of the original fuel

and

Hydrogen can be made via high pressure electrolysis or low pressure electrolysis of water. Current best processes have an efficiency of 50% to 80%, so that 1 kg of hydrogen (which has a specific energy of 143 MJ/kg, about 40 kWh/kg) requires 50 to 79 kWh of electricity. At 0,08 $/kWh, that's $4.00/kg, which is with traditional methods 3 to 10 times the price of hydrogen from steam reformation of natural gas. The price difference is due to the efficiency of direct conversion of fossil fuels to produce hydrogen, rather than burning fuel to produce electricity. Hydrogen from natural gas, used to replace e.g. gasoline, emits more CO2 than the gasoline it would replace, and so is no help in reducing greenhouse gases.

Hydrogen economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I need to stop following this thread...

[Xist]

Originally Posted by P-hack

Many of his associates are complete tools though.

Generally speaking, I am not sure that any group necessarily has more or fewer fools than any other.

Several times, I asked people why they pushed both elevator buttons when only desiring to travel in one direction, and they acted like I was an idiot.

Intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.

Gah. How many times have you heard someone say "You stupid!"

Deeply eloquent argument, Sir or Ma'am. Humankind is forever in your debt.

[P-hack]

I guess it is an appropriate tangent for the unicorn coral

Yah HHO is a bust on cars, still a lot of unanswered questions on big rigs, but thecell.net is making some hard to believe claims, and their "SAE" testing method is not terribly conclusive, single test with two different drivers on two different machines.

[wickydude]

Originally Posted by P-hack

I guess it is an appropriate tangent for the unicorn coral

Yah HHO is a bust on cars, still a lot of unanswered questions on big rigs, but thecell.net is making some hard to believe claims, and their "SAE" testing method is not terribly conclusive, single test with two different drivers on two different machines.

I agree.
And a "report" without data by an independent mr. Claude J Travis, of whom I could not find much info other than some claims about equally unproven technologies (additives etc.)
Sorry, but it is just not scientific enough to spend 18k on a black box.

If it were really this good, all major manufacturers would deliver their vehicles with a unit like this.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by wickydude

I agree.
And a "report" without data by an independent mr. Claude J Travis, of whom I could not find much info other than some claims about equally unproven technologies (additives etc.)
Sorry, but it is just not scientific enough to spend 18k on a black box.

If it were really this good, all major manufacturers would deliver their vehicles with a unit like this.

A while ago, one of my friends linked a funny "What You Ought to Know" video and, in my effort to squander every possible moment of my life, I watched all of them. I think that they are pretty well done, they just have not updated in over a year.

They had one [don't click just because it's a link! ] What You Ought To Know : Water Is Not An Energy Source that just shares what is common knowledge for most of us.

The guy in the video called every HHO company to ask for details, but could not get a hold of anyone. One of them claimed that a trucking company used their products with a 15% improvement. He talked to their mechanic that said they saw a gain, but they stopped using the systems because they were unreliable.

He mentioned that installation required drilling into the frame.

[wickydude]

I guess it comes down to the old saying: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by P-hack

Yah HHO is a bust on cars, still a lot of unanswered questions on big rigs, but thecell.net is making some hard to believe claims, and their "SAE" testing method is not terribly conclusive, single test with two different drivers on two different machines.

It is simply a testing protocol. You have to understand the test to absorb the implications. It is used by such well known manufacturers as Bully Dog Programmers and government agencies such as the EPA. It is used by colleges and universities.

The basis for the test is the use of a baseline vehicle run alongside a near identical test vehicle. Several runs provide a baseline for both vehicles. The test vehicle is then run several times with the test system/device active and the baseline vehicle running along. The baseline vehicle provides a "sensor", if you will, to provide feedback on any changes in variables such as temperature, air density, etc. These changes in the baseline vehicle are applied to the test vehicle.

Performed correctly, the test is conclusive down to a +/- 1% accuracy.

The fellow who ran the test in this instance , C. J. Travis, is an elderly gentleman who is/was a consulting engineer and allegedly had a hand in developing this test years ago.

The test can be administered by any number of qualified consulting firms. It must be pointed out that the test and it's results are the property of the paying party. Thus, all you seem to find on the net about this test are the glowing positive results. I am quite sure there are many failures that never see daylight.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by Xist

A while ago, one of my friends linked a funny "What You Ought to Know" video and, in my effort to squander every possible moment of my life, I watched all of them. I think that they are pretty well done, they just have not updated in over a year.

They had one [don't click just because it's a link! ] What You Ought To Know : Water Is Not An Energy Source that just shares what is common knowledge for most of us.

The guy in the video called every HHO company to ask for details, but could not get a hold of anyone. One of them claimed that a trucking company used their products with a 15% improvement. He talked to their mechanic that said they saw a gain, but they stopped using the systems because they were unreliable.

He mentioned that installation required drilling into the frame.

. . . with high school level knowledge.

The spokesman mentions a mechanic that corroborated a manufacturers positive claims and then mentions unreliability and hole drilling - as if that negates the possibility of good science.