GM: Won't let "green car stuff" get out of hand

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Since I've always owned small cars (and I mean really small, like the Austin-Healey Sprite), it's very tempting to believe that, but I don't quite. It's part of the story, but not all of it. There's been a lot of creative marketing, selling not just the size but false suggestions of safety and adventure, like your nine-to-five sitting in the cubicle cowboys.

But there were a lot of individualists back in the '60s and early '70s :-) ...

The '60's and '70's had the rise of the "counterculture" so yes there was a popular backlash against "the way things were".

Then it died.

I've almost always owned small cars too. I am acutely aware that we are not the majority. So there ya are.

I do enjoy cruising in the '59 on occasion though. In '59 it was the biggest Chevrolet ever offered. Today it is dwarfed by all the pickups and SUVs.

[brucepick]

My beef with GM here - and the other American makers also - is that they did not LEAD.

Huh? Capitalist theory and whatnot might say they don't have to lead, but only need to make money for the shareholders. Bunk, I say.

Selling big cars and trucks to Americans is like selling beer or other mental recreational aids to students. It's easy. And its a LOT easier than selling them an education.

The manufacturers failed us. They should have figured out how to make fuel efficient reliable cars and sold them to us. They should have said, "You want an unreliable gas hog? Go find someone else to make it! We're going to give you reliability, fuel economy, and safety. Made right here in the USA".

They could have saved their skins but they went for the easy sell instead. They got what they earned.

Unfortunately, as Pogo said, "they are us", because so many of us are shareholders through our mutual funds etc. There's plenty blame to go around.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

Frank, your sudden philosophizing is giving me a headache.

I can go back to cranky old codger if you like.

And I meant the existing line-up would be converted straight-away to full hybrid, with electric-only options. No hybrid ICE's with over 35 peak HP output, lots of diesel options, and not one thing under 30mpg city or highway EPA.

I wouldn't buy one and I have reservations as to whether a whole lotta folks would.

[robchalmers]

I'm confused and stunned by Lutz, but i agrees with the statement above 'students/beer' in someways I'm glad Opel/Vauxhall are being seperated from GM it will give them chance to succeed. The issue I see is one repeated throughout this thread.
1. everyone wants as much for as little as poss -size, power, gadgets etc but everyone including us euros do
2.there is no selling the benefits of a a more economic car it doesn't have to be a tiny,slow crampt rattle box. there are family station wagons/sedans (fusion size) out there (most with links back to US Manufacturers) that do 45-50MPGus. I as much time and effort went into selling those instead of atruck bursting through an exploding building or out of a airplane -you never know they might sell better.
3. Saftey Big isn't always safest - trust me seen the data and the real life accidents I've seen a 2/3 head on between a renault modus (tiny french super mini) v's a Toyota tundra - guess which came out worse?
4.Quality, I know above this there are threads knocking VW, but as a VW employee- in quality they are leaps ahead of the GM EUROPE ideals, which when I was there were considered by some as excessive by GM US. At work I don't think (would have to check)we've bench marked a US car for years in terms of quality (granted different perceived market) but from the cars I've driven in the US its just surreal, I mean the trailblazer I had in Houston had about 97 miles on the clock - the dash was loose, arm rest was creaking the carpets didn't fit..... there was a whole list of things that wouldn't be release out of a GM europe factory -then again I'm a proffessional picky B*stard!!!
5. Fuel+CO2 seriously $3/ gallon!!!!!!!!! at we're on a $6 gallon here!!! if that was the case in the States, firstly there would be a coup, but secondly there would be a long cold hard look at the EPA figures. Next, Tax we have a system that every year we buy our road tax (pays for maintaince etc of roads so we're told) and thats based on the CO2 kick out , more CO2 more cash, anything sub100g/km is free!!!!!!!

I've decided to I think I'll stop pondering the US market it just seems to be completely polaric compared to the rest of the world!

[blueflame]

Whoa I'm not sure I want to go anywhere near this.

Auto manufactures in bed with oil companies? Never!

Whose that at the door this time of night with shiny black shoes?

[hamsterpower]

The true problem globally seems to be that "this quarter profits above all else" is the focus of business but a poor measure of success.

If only we could think of our impact first.

[robchalmers]

I agree there is far too much of a 'desposable/newest is best' culture globally - just take the iphone as a priem example! its not restricted to the Auto industry

[tjts1]

It amazes me that even after complete and total meltdown, bankruptcy, bailout and total ownership by the government the same idiots that ran the company into the ground at still in charge at GM. What is it going to take to bring in new outside management?

[robchalmers]

zero sales

[Super22LL]

I've always wondered, if the Big 3 include their sales to Government agencies in their sales numbers? I would think, I don't know for sure, that MOST local, state and federal agencies use only American vehicles. I would think they would want to reflect an American image. I know all the city and state vehicles I see here are all American, though I suspect some agencies out there use "import" brand vehicles. So, if they do include the sales to these agencies in their figures, it's really misleading. I'd like to see a list of vehicle sales to the public "John Doe" consumer only.

When people here at my job complain about "import" brands I always ask them this question. If someone was to GIVE you a FREE loaded-out brand spanking new 0 miles Impala or a FREE loaded out brand spanking new 0 miles Camry, which would you choose? I'd take the Camry.

Personally, I have a Scion XB and a Chevrolet S10. I spend a lot of my time doing minor maintenance to my S10, such as replacing the door hinges the went out and caused the door to sag and not close properly. Putting in 3 sets of U joints due to a factory defect in the 2 piece drive shaft it came with. Radio quit on me. Clutch spring snapped. The jack broke on me while I was rotating my tires. Just minor annoying things like that. Oh, and my Scion XB...all I've done is change the oil the last 4 years. No issues what so ever. * shurg