Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2014, 08:50 AM   #11 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
Here are some of the weights for what has been removed and what is going back in.
The weights removed from the car are real world figures weighed as each piece was removed. The fluid weights were derived from the service manual figures for each fluids capacity and the fluids Specific Gravity.
The weights of the items going into the vehicle are mainly estimates and so are likely to creep up.
Also these weights were from the first car i stripped (same model) and i removed the A/C Compressor in that one whereas i will be retaining it this time.
So it is really only 2 kilos lighter not the 8.7 shown in the table.

I haven't removed anything other than the ICE related stuff. I still have all the interior untouched, spare wheel, jack, factory steel rims all round, etc.
The weight of the 12v accessories battery may change as i am still trying to decide if i will use a small motorbike battery or some form of LiFePo4 battery. I am leaning towards the motorcycle battery as it will not require as much monitoring or charge / discharge control.

If i stumble upon some crazy cheap alloy rims i may swap them over. But so far i am happy with ~200 kilos (441lbs) removed.



Last edited by Astro; 10-03-2014 at 07:32 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:
thingstodo (11-10-2014)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-02-2014, 09:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master Novice
 
elhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE USA - East Tennessee
Posts: 2,294

Josie - '87 Toyota Pickup
90 day: 30.49 mpg (US)

Felicia - '09 Toyota Prius Base
90 day: 52.18 mpg (US)
Thanks: 410
Thanked 598 Times in 438 Posts
I assume it's Department of Safety or similar regs that require retention of power steering?

What if you could find and install a manual steering system from another Barina? Being that it was standard equipment on an equivalent example, would that satisfy the regulations?
__________________




Lead or follow. Either is fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 09:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
I assume it's Department of Safety or similar regs that require retention of power steering?

What if you could find and install a manual steering system from another Barina? Being that it was standard equipment on an equivalent example, would that satisfy the regulations?
Afraid not, well at least not in my state here in Australia. I spoke to the engineer to see what was allowed and it was a big no. If the car was manufactured with power steering then it has to remain. The engineers are the ones that have the final say, they determine how each regulation is to be interpreted. If the regulation says the batteries need to be in a box and the engineer interprets that to mean quarter inch plate, fully welded and painted pink then that is what is required. After all it is their butt that is on the line if they sign off something and it is later found to be unsafe or the cause of an accident.

The National Code of Practice says
Quote:
If the original vehicle was fitted with air brakes, vacuum assisted brakes or power assisted steering, an alternative source of energy must be fitted. The power and capacity of the new
source must be of sufficient capacity to provide efficient functioning of the system and meet all the legal capacity requirements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master Novice
 
elhigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE USA - East Tennessee
Posts: 2,294

Josie - '87 Toyota Pickup
90 day: 30.49 mpg (US)

Felicia - '09 Toyota Prius Base
90 day: 52.18 mpg (US)
Thanks: 410
Thanked 598 Times in 438 Posts
Man, that bites.

In light of that I would hold out for another clean example that never had power steering, because that parasitic loss to keep the pump running is a big drag on your capacity. As you say they're cheap and plentiful due to the Achilles heel of the engine.

It's interesting to me to see how different countries and even states regulate vehicles.

There are lots of states in the US that have required annual vehicle inspections, some for emissions and some for general vehicle condition, often both. In the counties of Tennessee where I live and work, there are no inspections at all. You see some serious junkyard dogs rolling around here as a direct result. If it runs and you can register it, off it goes.

No visible smoke, though. There are regulations on the books that permit cops to pull you over and give citations if you're smoking up the place.
__________________




Lead or follow. Either is fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 11:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
redneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC Lowcountry
Posts: 1,377

Geo XL1 - '94 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Boat tails and more mods
90 day: 72.22 mpg (US)

Big, Bad & Flat - '01 Dodge Ram 3500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 21.13 mpg (US)
Thanks: 182
Thanked 1,118 Times in 543 Posts
.

Just a thought. Maybe you could add a couple of micro switches to the steering wheel shaft that will turn on the power steering pump when either 9 o'clock or 3o'clock is exceeded. This would remove continuous parasitic loss of the pump on the system.

And yes, I do realize that this will not pass initial testing.

Like I said, just a thought.



>
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #16 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
The plan is to generate the required signals to allow the electric power steering pump to reduce its load as vehicle speed increases. So you get maximum assistance at low speed and zero assistance once you get moving at a decent speed.
There is a thread on the DIY Electric Car forum that describes some members efforts at getting these working.
There is also a YouTube video of one being bench tested which shows they can be very quiet. I have seen one other video in which the pump sound was deafening. So hopefully i can work out which one is the quiet one.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:
Daox (10-03-2014)
Old 10-02-2014, 06:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
I found the videos with one being quiet and one being loud. Well it appears that way anyway. Sometimes it is hard to tell without other noises on the recording to judge relative volume levels.

Maybe i should go with the louder one. Might stop people saying electric cars are too quiet.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:
thingstodo (11-10-2014)
Old 10-02-2014, 08:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,474

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.61 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 37.82 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.23 mpg (US)

Sx4 - '07 Suzuki Sx4
90 day: 31.72 mpg (US)
Thanks: 318
Thanked 435 Times in 308 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro View Post
The plan is to generate the required signals to allow the electric power steering pump to reduce its load as vehicle speed increases. So you get maximum assistance at low speed and zero assistance once you get moving at a decent speed.
My understanding is that at least some Barina/Astra pumps only require a VSS signal to operate in this manor. I have a MR2 pump with only three connections, power, ground and VSS.
__________________






  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2014, 09:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
My understanding is that at least some Barina/Astra pumps only require a VSS signal to operate in this manor. I have a MR2 pump with only three connections, power, ground and VSS.
Yes, i am leaning towards the MR2 pump. Seems quiet and easy to wire up.
I like the idea of hiding it away under the front fender and only having the reservoir in the engine bay. That would save some space and neaten things up a bit, may even make it quieter once the plastic wheel well liner covers it up.
Also being able to just get it to run initially and then add a more controlled VSS signal later makes it seem easier.
I think the newer models of the MR2 pump have a few extra wires for things like diagnostics and warning lights. Those extra connections don't need to be hooked up but as i have a Power Steering warning light as part of the existing instrument cluster it makes sense to get the pump that can use it.
I think next week a friend wants to go on a bit of a scavenge at the wreckers so i will keep an eye out for a MR2 pump.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2014, 02:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
Dreamer
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 350
Thanks: 95
Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro View Post
I haven't estimated the weight of the 12v accessories battery as i am still trying to decide if i will use a small motorbike battery or some form of LiFePo4 battery. I am leaning towards the motorcycle battery as it will not require as much monitoring or charge / discharge control.
Is self quoting allowed?

I just measured the parasitic draw on the accessory battery with car all off.
I wanted to know how quickly a small motorcycle battery would be discharged with the parasitic load.
The current draw is 5.27mA.
So about 55 days to flatten a 7Ah battery to dead flat.
Maybe count on a month before the voltage drops too low to be useful for energising the contactors. If the contactors can be energised then the DC-to-DC converter will fire up and the car will be good to go and the accessory battery will start charging.
If that is correct then i should be able to ditch the massive 12.6kg (27.8lbs) standard car battery and replace it with a battery that takes up about a quarter of the space and saves over 10kg (22 lbs) in weight.

I will have to check the regulations to find out how long the accessory battery is required to continue without input from the traction battery via the DC-to-DC converter.
Checked, it has to be able to power the hazard lights flashing for a minimum of 20 minutes.
So 6 globes. (rear 2 x 21W, front 2 x 21W and side 2 x 5W) 94watts or 7.8A at 12 volts
50% duty cycle (flashing) lowers it to 3.9A averaged.
So 20 minutes should only need about 1.3Ah from the 7Ah battery
Looks like it may be doable.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:
thingstodo (11-10-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
barina

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com