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Old 03-27-2013, 02:50 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Isn't an airplane conversion outside the remit from the Original Poster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb
Has anyone really put much thought into this vs just tossing out makes and models of cars? Is there a car with better aero than the Prius? Is there a more efficient and clean GAS engine than what the prius comes with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecar
Prius is perfect in some ways, it is already a proven aerodynamic shape of what is a full sized 5 seat aluminium car, and it conquers aspects of power brakes and power steering quite neatly.
As I said in August, I'd drop the weight of the Prius (100s of lb?) by pulling the complete drivetrain and swapping in a 36hp VW boxer and transmission. You could even put it in the front, using parts from The Blackjack ZERO. You'd wind up with equivalent-to-stock mpg; but that isn't disallowed by the remit, right?

I'll go further. Convert the boxer 4 to a Miller cycle compressed air hybrid, and use GSXR 600 throttle body or port injectors and crank-fired ignition.

Performance would approximate a diesel Prius, would it not?

EDIT: Here, I Photochopped it:


Last edited by freebeard; 03-27-2013 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:10 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Isn't an airplane conversion outside the remit from the Original Poster?





As I said in August, I'd drop the weight of the Prius (100s of lb?) by pulling the complete drivetrain and swapping in a 36hp VW boxer and transmission. You could even put it in the front, using parts from The Blackjack ZERO. You'd wind up with equivalent-to-stock mpg; but that isn't disallowed by the remit, right?

I'll go further. Convert the boxer 4 to a Miller cycle compressed air hybrid, and use GSXR 600 throttle body or port injectors and crank-fired ignition.

Performance would approximate a diesel Prius, would it not?
One of the problems is Prius is constantly turning the engine On and Off, and as a way of explaining it to start the engine it bump starts it as it doesnt actually have an electric start or even an accessory drive. When the car is stationary it uses one of the two electric motors.

Which is presumably why they chose Atkinson cycle as opposed to Otto cycle for the engine and avoided diesel.

Changing the transmission may be a lot more problematical than it first appears.
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:52 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Changing the transmission may be a lot more problematical than it first appears.
That's just to convert from a transverse to longitudinal layout. The only transverse VW installs I know of are in motorcycles.

One transmission problem: One probably would need to build a recessed firewall—a box intruding into the front footwell. Since it's a blue-sky proposal, I'll specify replacing the stock tailcone/transmission mount and shift rod with Arduino-controlled electric solenoids. That should shave off ~6".

The Scuderi patents linked to mean it would be a owner-built one-off. (I've seen some suggest it's run in Brayton cycle, like a jet engine) But using a compressed air hybrid system means deleting the electric starter. And with a (BMW patent) electric turbocharger, delete the alternator.

Essentially, a plug-in compressed air hybrid with onboard recharging via the gas power assist.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:45 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
That's just to convert from a transverse to longitudinal layout. The only transverse VW installs I know of are in motorcycles.

One transmission problem: One probably would need to build a recessed firewall—a box intruding into the front footwell. Since it's a blue-sky proposal, I'll specify replacing the stock tailcone/transmission mount and shift rod with Arduino-controlled electric solenoids. That should shave off ~6".

The Scuderi patents linked to mean it would be a owner-built one-off. (I've seen some suggest it's run in Brayton cycle, like a jet engine) But using a compressed air hybrid system means deleting the electric starter. And with a (BMW patent) electric turbocharger, delete the alternator.

Essentially, a plug-in compressed air hybrid with onboard recharging via the gas power assist.
I think from a clean sheet point of view I would still favour electric drive for its versatility.

It is possible to drive via wheel motors and controlled via a chopper controller. Which substantially dispenses with the inefficiencies of any transmission, with wheel motors possibly in the order of 96% efficient on their own. But agreeably somewhat less as a system when considering batteries/accumulators, power generation efficiencies etc, but nonetheless calculable.

Beyond that primarily the differences are more manageable because they are more or less modular, as opposed to developing a hybrid technology for which their is a smaller pool of research.

The issue is at its core, is the difference between the electric drive for automobile manufacture and a sophisticated IC engine/transmission system. One is basically plug in bits and cookie cutter technology, the other requires cast infrastructure and high order mech design skilling, turbines, thermo dynamics etc.

And this is why ultimately the electric vehicle no matter its form, will be the victor over the IC engined car.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
I think from a clean sheet point of view I would still favour electric drive for its versatility.
Well, me too, but for different reasons. Your 'clean sheet' already has a Prius on it.

Most people would say it is batteries holding back electric cars. I think this mess needs to be sorted out:
Avenge Tesla And End Suppression Once And For All « Just Wondering – Alternative News and Opinions
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Well, me too, but for different reasons. Your 'clean sheet' already has a Prius on it.

Most people would say it is batteries holding back electric cars. I think this mess needs to be sorted out:
Avenge Tesla And End Suppression Once And For All « Just Wondering – Alternative News and Opinions
Ecomodder is one of the few place were such details creates the inspiration to sort such issues out. I think there are two high visibility facts

If you live in a city and your transport requirements are slight, an EV may ultimately prove the best solution. In the short term likely the cheapest too.

For those that dont, a hybrid offers load balancing between stop/start, and uphill/downhill, that provides the best compromise for the most efficient and therefore the next lowest cost option.

I guess the question there is, is an On/Off IC engine best like Prius, or a fulltime low power with load balancing battery better.

It would be nice to look at things logically in more modular terms,
  • The search for the efficient electric drive
  • The search for the efficient battery
and what is not necessarily a subset of both
  • The search for the extended range solution
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:04 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Or, you know, make a compressed-air hybrid and sidestep all that.

Compressed air from tidal power. Then you can say your car is Mqqn equipped.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:05 PM   #68 (permalink)
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We like the moon......



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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Compressed air from tidal power. Then you can say your car is Mqqn equipped.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:44 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Ummm..... Well......

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555Prometheus555 4 years ago

im sure the moon isnt as high as whoever created this crap. lol joke
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Old 05-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Wow, somehow I missed the evolution of my thread!

I hope that I was doing schoolwork at the time!

Oh right! That is what I was doing!

I just saw a reference to http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ment-9822.html and thought that it should be mentioned here. So, Insight, if not Prius, guts have been transplanted.

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