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Old 01-22-2020, 03:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Some people don't like wasting time at the gas station. Here in Oregon where we aren't allowed to pump our own gas each trip is about 15 minutes wasted.
I don't know what the average is. My stops these days are under 5 minutes from nearly completely empty to full, including the detour off the road and back on. Costco runs can run 15 minutes though.

I do think EV home charging will reprogram people to despise refueling at petrol stations.

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Old 01-22-2020, 09:25 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If your getting a gas hybrid consider the additional taxes title and registration.

You may be better off with a standard economy box or if your gonna pay the fee anyway get a PHEV.

$100 buys around 50 gallons of fuel and 3500 miles of driving in my Insight

https://www.limaohio.com/wire/state-...fect-next-week

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Old 01-22-2020, 11:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I do think EV home charging will reprogram people to despise refueling at petrol stations.
I already despise refueling at places where I can't pump it myself. I spent a week in New Jersey this past summer and didn't gas up once while there, despite driving into the state, driving around Trenton and Princeton all week, and then driving back out. Same last time I was in Oregon in 2016--got on 84 south of Richland, WA, and drove straight through to Boise. I suppose now, most of the stops on that route you can pump your own gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
If your getting a gas hybrid consider the additional taxes title and registration.

You may be better off with a standard economy box or if your gonna pay the fee anyway get a PHEV.

$100 buys around 50 gallons of fuel and 3500 miles of driving in my Insight

https://www.limaohio.com/wire/state-...fect-next-week
That Ohio fee, like others, is some BS. If you drive a 20 mpg truck 15,000 miles/year, you'll end up paying $78 more in gas taxes with the $0.105 hike. If you drive a 50 mpg hybrid, you'll pay an extra $31 in addition to the $100 registration fee--nearly twice as much as the truck. That's not evening the playing field; it's penalizing drivers of fuel-efficient vehicles disproportionately.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow! Thank you all for the responses and so quickly too.

I had initially ruled out PHEVs but the more I think about it the choice makes sense. My commute is about 16 miles one way so I could leverage the EV portion for almost the entire day. If I can find a way to charge at the office it would certainly last me for the commute and perhaps even an errand or two.

I do road trip quite often (or drive a few hundred miles a day for work when I'm not in the office) which is why the extended range is a strong preference of mine.

Yes, a truck would certainly give me more range. My hope is to strike that balance between economy and fuel capacity. I was interested in the Accord until I realized they shrunk the tank size from 15.8 gallons to 12.8 gallons. It being a sedan notwithstanding.

I am interested in purchasing new which is what drew me to the Ioniq with its strong warranty (at least that is my perception). Driving it will be the real test! I did not realize the PHEV tax incentives were so strong and that is swaying me very strongly to consider the plug-in model.

I do have another question for you all:
What is the best way to measure the kWh into the car when I am charging it? I, like you all, am very interested in logging my efficiency and have been using Fuelly for almost 7 years (how time flies!) to track it. I know Fuelly isn't setup for EV/PHEV/dual-fuel but for the sake of information on my end I would like to know.

I'm familiar with data logging from an industrial stand point, but for something like this I'm not sure. I imagine keeping a kill-a-watt plugged in at home would suffice, but what about on the go? Or if I lose power at home and my kill-a-watt resets and all that data is lost?

Thanks all, I appreciate each and every one of your responses!
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asciutto View Post
Wow! Thank you all for the responses and so quickly too.

I had initially ruled out PHEVs but the more I think about it the choice makes sense. My commute is about 16 miles one way so I could leverage the EV portion for almost the entire day. If I can find a way to charge at the office it would certainly last me for the commute and perhaps even an errand or two.

I do road trip quite often (or drive a few hundred miles a day for work when I'm not in the office) which is why the extended range is a strong preference of mine.

Yes, a truck would certainly give me more range. My hope is to strike that balance between economy and fuel capacity. I was interested in the Accord until I realized they shrunk the tank size from 15.8 gallons to 12.8 gallons. It being a sedan notwithstanding.

I am interested in purchasing new which is what drew me to the Ioniq with its strong warranty (at least that is my perception). Driving it will be the real test! I did not realize the PHEV tax incentives were so strong and that is swaying me very strongly to consider the plug-in model.

I do have another question for you all:
What is the best way to measure the kWh into the car when I am charging it? I, like you all, am very interested in logging my efficiency and have been using Fuelly for almost 7 years (how time flies!) to track it. I know Fuelly isn't setup for EV/PHEV/dual-fuel but for the sake of information on my end I would like to know.

I'm familiar with data logging from an industrial stand point, but for something like this I'm not sure. I imagine keeping a kill-a-watt plugged in at home would suffice, but what about on the go? Or if I lose power at home and my kill-a-watt resets and all that data is lost?

Thanks all, I appreciate each and every one of your responses!
Anthony
You asked our opinion, which everyone is eager to give

The federal tax credit is based on battery capacity. The smallest capacity that qualifies for the max credit of $7,500 is 16 kWh. Any vehicle with a smaller battery will have a lower credit amount. This is why I think targeting the 16 kWh size is smart, because the gov't pays you back $468.75 for each kWh of capacity, yet the cost to the manufacturer is somewhere around $125 per kWh. That allows a plug-in version to become cheaper than the non-hybrid after tax credits are factored in.

I used a kill-o-watt to measure my Prius electricity consumption, but it's only good for 120v and I installed an L2 and stopped measuring. Most cars will give a summary of how much electricity the battery took on, but that doesn't factor in charging losses. You could get a smart L2 charger that would log those things. I think there are versions of the Juice Box that do that. If 120v is ok, there are plenty of smart wifi switches that will log that data and they can be had for $10-$20.

I'd wait to see how the RAV4 Prime does when it comes out in the summer since it will be the latest and greatest, and has impressive stats for both performance and economy. Any of the other recommendations would be fine choices if you need something now. Personally I'd be targeting an EV range that can accomplish your round trip commute. It's within striking range of the Prius Prime and Ionic, should be easily doable in the RAV4 Prime, and certainly doable in the Volt.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I wouldn't focus so much on tank size. Hybrids need smaller tanks than the typical car for the same range. The Honda Accord Hybrid only has a 12.8 gallon tank but is rated at 48 mpg. That is a 614 mile range and within your requirement.

One thing to note about the tax credits is that they are not refundable. To get the full amount you must pay at least that amount of Federal Income Taxes in the year you purchase the vehicle. You cannot carry the credit over to following years. Everyone's taxes are different so that is something to check. I know people that were disappointed they didn't get the full credit. The current federal credits for PHEV hatchbacks are:

$4543 Ioniq PHEV
$4543 Kia Niro PHEV
$4502 Toyota Prius Prime

I just used a kill-a-watt when charging at home with the Level 1 charger that came with my car. At work we have Level 2 chargers with no way to collect data. In the end I decided to track the kWh usage shown by the car.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks again all!

I'm squarely in the Ioniq PHEV camp now. Only down side is there isn't a single 2020 (or 2019) PHEV available to test drive! Closest I've found is nearly 400 miles away. I reached out to a local dealer so hopefully they can procure one. They've got a hybrid on the lot but I imagine comparing an HEV to a PHEV is not really apples to apples.

A couple more questions for you all:
  • Is there a good resource for info on the included chargers with the Ioniq PHEV? The only info I've found is that the Level 1 charger is 120V, 12A, 15-5P style connector, and IP55 rated. Nothing about the Level 2 other than I assume it is 240V!
  • How does the internal kWh readout on the dash function? Is it lifetime? Or can it be reset every time I fill-up so per-tank kWh usage is tracked?
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asciutto View Post
Thanks again all!

I'm squarely in the Ioniq PHEV camp now. Only down side is there isn't a single 2020 (or 2019) PHEV available to test drive! Closest I've found is nearly 400 miles away. I reached out to a local dealer so hopefully they can procure one. They've got a hybrid on the lot but I imagine comparing an HEV to a PHEV is not really apples to apples.

A couple more questions for you all:
  • Is there a good resource for info on the included chargers with the Ioniq PHEV? The only info I've found is that the Level 1 charger is 120V, 12A, 15-5P style connector, and IP55 rated. Nothing about the Level 2 other than I assume it is 240V!
  • How does the internal kWh readout on the dash function? Is it lifetime? Or can it be reset every time I fill-up so per-tank kWh usage is tracked?
The actual charger is internal to the car. The charger in the Ioniq is 3.3 kW and is the limiting factor.

The car will come with a Level 1 110V ICCB which is basically a fancy extension cord. 110V x 12A = 1.3 kW. It will take about 9 hours to charge your battery.

You can buy a 220v Level 2 home charger from a bunch of different suppliers. They range from 16 amp - 80 amp. The 32 amp charger on a 40 amp circuit seems to be the most popular. Since the internal charger on your Ioniq is only 3.3 kW even a 16 amp charger will max out your charge rate and charge your battery in 2 1/4 hours.

Most of the public Level 2 chargers you will find will be 7 kW because most EVs have a 6.6 kW internal charger.


The 2016 Spark EV I had also had a 3.3 kW charger. It worked fine for me as I could plug in when I got home and let the car charge overnight. Speed wasn't an issue. The kWh readout on my car could be reset and I reset it and recorded the average miles / kWh every 500 miles.

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Old 01-24-2020, 10:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
The actual charger is internal to the car. The charger in the Ioniq is 3.3 kW and is the limiting factor.

The car will come with a Level 1 110V ICCB which is basically a fancy extension cord. 110V x 12A = 1.3 kW. It will take about 9 hours to charge your battery.
I misspoke -- not charger, but charging cable. All documentation I've read points to the Ioniq coming with a Level 1 and a Level 2 charging cable. Beyond that there is very little information out there about the specifics.

IE: Plug-type, IP rating, etc.

Thanks again!
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Old 01-24-2020, 10:44 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The 2 PHEV I like best are the Outlander and coming RAV4 Prime. I think the Outlander can make your daily commute, it think it's tax credit is $5836 range where the Rav4 I think will be the full amount that I thought was $7500.

Rav4 IS going to be a lot quicker and longer EV range, I think 10 more miles, better dealer support, closest Mit dealer to me is 75 miles.

Edit: EPA for the Outlander is only 22 miles EV, I've read reviews of them doing 30 miles. Rav4 Prime is EPA range is 39.


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