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Old 09-18-2012, 12:12 AM   #31 (permalink)
ron
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double eagles - '99 Dodge ram slt
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I read somewhere that the powers that be decided to lower NOX and so they run more fuel or a rich mixture . if true, thats some of the extra fuel.

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Old 09-18-2012, 12:26 AM   #32 (permalink)
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one more thing A truck is used for hauling and such so the computer is programed for more fuel , so that the engines dont get cooked
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:18 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Here is an article about the advantages of mixing diesel and gasoline.
You might want to open a topic on it.

SOURCE: (Diesel used as gasoline 'spark plug' improves economy and emissions)

economy and emissions[/SIZE]
By Michael Mulcahy
August 11, 2009
9 Comments
0 inShare

The most fuel-efficient diesel engine in the world, the Wärtsilä RTA96C, converts 50% of fuel into power. Researchers have now achieved better efficiency with a gasoline-diesel mix
The two engine technologies tend to be regarded as completely separate, so we rarely contemplate how gasoline and diesel can work together. But, in a series of tests conducted at the University of Wisconsin, scientists have used an engine’s fuel injection to produce the optimal diesel-gas mix for any given moment. The results are impressive: an average 20% greater fuel efficiency; combustion temperatures reduced by up to 40%; and effortless meeting of the stringent EPA 2010 emission regulations. Plus, the researchers believe that if their findings were implemented into every gasoline and diesel engine in the US, the savings could be as great as 4 million barrels of oil daily.
Because it’s less reactive and won’t burn so easily, gasoline could normally never fuel a diesel engine. However, the fuel-injected diesel becomes a kind of liquid spark plug, providing a kick-start for ignition. The fuel mix varies depending on circumstance: a heavily-laden truck might require a mix as high as 85% gasoline to 15% diesel, while a light load would require a roughly 50-50 blend. Fast-response fuel blending, in which an engine's fuel injection is programmed to produce the optimal gasoline-diesel mix based on real-time operating conditions, determines the correct mix.
While the theory was initially computer-modeled, researchers put it to the test using a heavy-duty Caterpillar diesel engine. The test confirmed two of the greatest benefits of blended fuel combustion.
First, the combustion temperatures were reduced by as much as 40%, meaning far less energy was lost from the engine through heat transfer. Second, the customized fuel mix optimized combustion, with less unburned fuel lost in the exhaust and fewer emissions. (In fact, the process easily achieves the EPA’s requirement that 90% of soot and 80% of nitrogen oxide be eliminated from diesel emissions by 2010.)
In combination, these helped the test engine achieve a best result of 53% thermal efficiency. Thermal efficiency, basically, measures the percentage of fuel converted into power, and not lost in heat transfer or exhaust. The figure of 53% mightn’t seem like a lot, but so far the most fuel-efficient diesel engine in the world can only achieve a best figure of 50%.
The very good news is that this idea is, relatively speaking, fairly easy to implement. The scientists believe it will work just as well with the low-pressure fuel injection of gasoline engines as with diesel’s high-pressure valves. And, because gasoline engines average only 25% thermal efficiency, the potential for fuel economy is even greater.
The research group estimates that, if every gasoline and diesel engine in the U.S. converted to this blended fuel process – and achieved an overall thermal efficiency of 53% - oil consumption would reduce by about 4 million barrels a day, a little under a third of today's current consumption. Little wonder the Department of Energy has its funding fingers in this pie.


9 Comments

I hope the FBI keeps the Arabs and the worst of the oil companies from disrupting this technology by buying people off or by sabotage. Of course, that function was performed by the Department of Energy's incompetence in prior years.
TogetherinParis
12th August, 2009 @ 02:18 am PDT

So, couple this up with the scuderi air-hybrid add-on, and slap a turbo charger on it and you could probably achieve 80% effiency...and the USA will still not produce it!
Ed
12th August, 2009 @ 05:53 pm PDT

The use of an additional fuel in diesel engines (stationary, passenger vehicles and big rigs) is not new. The use of petrol is probably more palatable for the scaremongers out there than the, more common and cheaper alternative: LPG 'fumigation' broadly used in Australia. It is also available, both in diy and workshop fitted form, in the USA and some countries in Europe. The fuel savings possibilities are considerable, but it must raise a big red flag for manufacturers and legislators/enforcers, due to 'warranty' and taxation/classification issues, respectively. I would use it if I could!
Uly
18th August, 2009 @ 01:11 pm PDT

I was going to try 25/75 gas/diesel in my vw diesel but according to this study, a 50/50 mix would be the best. I have over 500 gallons of stale gasoline from a wrecking yard that I have been collecting/saving on my farm just for experimentation! I will first try it in my Yanmar diesel tractor and later, in my VW and will report back on results
Will, the tink
14th June, 2010 @ 05:07 pm PDT

Surely this isn't new?
Still, 53% is a mighty large number well done chaps.
With the obvious example set (as Uly posted) lpg/propane with diesel
Craig Jennings
14th June, 2010 @ 11:05 pm PDT

do we need to modify the engine? or not? little bit confusing. so in the gas tank we just put 20 liters gasoline and 20 liters diesel? any suggestion? how about old engines?
Abs De Austria
8th May, 2011 @ 09:54 pm PDT

So....
Here it is December, 2011 and no further word on this. Over two years. Looks like the naysayers were right: The evil twins, the DOE and Big Oil quashed this one. We'll probably hear some time later that "research" and "experimentation" is still being done, but that's all that will ever come of this simple yet effective idea. If it sounds too good to be true, it's too good to ever happen. Guess that's why they call it the Department of Energy. Want to make sure we keep using more and more of it. All the talk and posturing from the gummint about cutting back is eyewash for the public and grist for the media mill. The real players in this game, the ones who make the big money and buy the politicians make the choices.
Neil Larkins
5th December, 2011 @ 05:41 am PST

Neil, apparently it is quite difficult to get right, but there are production units, a few major haulage companies in the UK are using Diesel Blend LPG systems to improve combustion by 10-20%.

Dieselblend system

Diesel - LPG Bi - Fuel conversions (sometimes called Diesel/LPG BiFuel or Diesel-LPG Bi-Fuel). Gas Power UK, Devon LPG Autogas Propane Car Conversions (we are based in the South West in Devon and provide Diesel-LPG bi-fuel conversions as well as LPG

Robert Hannent
16th December, 2011 @ 06:41 am PST

If you run gasoline through a diesel you will destroy the engine. Gasoline detonates at compression levels well below the normal compression ratios (CR) of diesel engines. Even low octane gasoline detonates in gas engines at about 12 to 1 CR. Racing fuel for use in engines with hi CR are hi octane because it is less volatile and will But diesel engines run at 20-1 or higher and even racing gas will not work properly.
The article suggests that gas is less reactive than diesel Not true. Run diesel through a gas engine and it will produce less than 50% power and will smoke like like a house afire. It will also gum up everything in the carb or fuel injection system.
Ask any diesel mechanic. Gizmag is not powered by folks who actually work on engines; they just write about them.
Guy Macher
21st May, 2012 @ 04:20 am PDT


Related Articles
• Mercedes-Benz unveils DiesOtto - the “future of the gasoline engine”
25th July, 2007
• Mazda’s eco-friendly next-generation engines to debut at Tokyo Motor Show
30th September, 2009
• Scuderi Group Air-Hybrid Engine claimed to double fuel efficiency
3rd May, 2006
• EBDI ethanol engines surpass gasoline engine efficiency
6th February, 2009
• Nissan shows ultra-frugal Micra DIG-S (Direct Injection Gasoline - Supercharger)
18th February, 2011
• New technology turns petrol engines into low compression diesel!
3rd October, 2005
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:55 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecomodded View Post
Quote DoctorM:
I'm also thinking about setting up a "still" to remove the ethanol and then add in some acetone to compensate. I have some papers on experiments along that line also.

`````````````````````````````````````````````



Acetone enrichment can be studied in our unicorn corral where it belongs.
Removing ethanol from the gas? belongs in the corral as well, ridiculous idea to begin with, lets all go buy some gas then remove 5% of its volume threw some time consuming nutty distillation process and bingo you now have less fuel to travel less miles with. Now that's a bright idea, the original poster is either gullible as all **** or is trolling.

I nominate this thread to the Unicorn coral

Ah ah ah ah -- naughty naughty. Lets don't jump to conclusions without actual experiment.

Here is an article that discusses actual experimental data on acetone. The article has a graph of acetone percentage versus mileage increase, but it doesn't show up in this cut and paste.

Acetone In Fuel Said to Increase Mileage

Readily-available chemical added to gas tank in small proportion improves the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by reducing the surface tension that inhibits vaporization of some fuel droplets.

by Louis LaPointe
Adapted by Sterling D. Allan and Mary-Sue Haliburton
with LaPointe's permission for Pure Energy Systems News

See also, Acetone Data • FAQ (includes possible negative effects)



Acetone (CH3COCH3) is a product that can be purchased inexpensively in most locations around the world, such as in the common hardware, auto parts, or drug store. Added to the fuel tank in tiny amounts, acetone aids in the vaporization of the gasoline or diesel, increasing fuel efficiency, engine longevity, and performance -- as well as reducing hydrocarbon emissions.

How it Works

Acetone
A colorless, volatile liquid with a sweet odor. It is considered the least toxic solvent in industry. It can occur naturally. It is used in the production of lubricating oils, chloroform, pharmaceuticals, pesticides, paints, varnishes and lacquers. If present in water, it is more likely to volatilize or biodegrade before bioaccumulating or adsorbing to sediments. Acetone will also readily volatilize and biodegrade in soil. It is also a common laboratory contaminant, so its presence in a sample does not always indicate its presence in the environment. Synonyms - Dimethylketone and 2-propanone.
-- Environmental Terms Glossary
(U.S. Military)

Additive: changes the specifications of the base it is added to
Complete vaporization of fuel is far from perfect in today's cars and trucks. A certain amount of residual fuel in most engines remains liquid in the hot chamber. In order to be fully combusted, the fuel must be fully vaporized.

Surface tension presents an obstacle to vaporization. For instance the energy barrier from surface tension can sometimes force water to reach 300 degrees Fahrenheit before it vaporizes. Similarly with gasoline.

Acetone drastically reduces the surface tension. Most fuel molecules are sluggish with respect to their natural frequency. Acetone has an inherent molecular vibration that "stirs up" the fuel molecules, to break the surface tension. This results in a more complete vaporization with other factors remaining the same. More complete vaporization means less wasted fuel, hence the increased gas mileage from the increased thermal efficiency.

That excess fuel was formerly wasted past the rings or sent out the tailpipe but when mixed with acetone it gets burned, though the engine still thinks it is running straight gas.

Acetone allows gasoline to behave more like the ideal automotive fuel which is PROPANE. The degree of improved mileage depends on how much unburned fuel you are presently wasting. You might gain 15 to 35-percent better economy from the use of acetone. Sometimes even more.

How Much to Use

Add in tiny amounts from about one part per 5000 to one part per 3000, depending on the vehicle -- just a few ounces per ten gallons of gas. This comes to between 0.0003 % to 0.0025 % acetone maximum or approximately 1/15th of one-percent. Note that is around .78 cc per liter or one ounce per 10 gallons. Not more than three oz. per 10 gallons.



Figure 1:
Percentage MILEAGE GAIN when a tiny amount of acetone is added to fuel. The curves A B C show the effect on three different cars using different gasolines. Some engines respond better than others to acetone. The D curve is for diesel fuel. Too much acetone decreases mileage slightly due to adding too much octane to the fuel. Too much additive would upset the mixture ratio because acetone (like alcohol) is a light molecule and tends to lean the mixture.



After you first find the best gasoline in your area, then try the acetone amount for your car per ten gallons, and if you are happy with your newfound mileage, you might want to try stopping the use of acetone for a couple of tanks. Watch the drop in mileage. It will amaze you. That reverse technique is one of the biggest eye openers concerning the use of acetone in fuel.

In a 10-gallon tank of gasoline, use one to three ounces of pure acetone to obtain excellent mileage improvements. In a ten-gallon tank of diesel fuel, use from 1 to 2 ounces of acetone. Performance goes up too. Use about a half-teaspoon of acetone in the fuel tank of a 4-cycle lawnmower or snowblower. Or you can apply it with an eyedropper.

Where to Get Acetone

The pure acetone label is the only additive suggested and is easily available from most drug stores in 16-ounce plastic bottles and in one-gallon containers from some large fleet farm supply stores. But any acetone source is better than none. Containers labeled acetone from a hardware store are usually okay and pure enough to put in your fuel. We prefer cans or bottles that say 100-percent pure. The acetone in gallons or pints we get from Fleet Farm are labeled 100 % pure. The bottles from Walgreen say 100 % pure. Never use solvents such as paint thinners or unknown stuff in your gas. Toluene, benzene and xylene have been okay if they are pure but may not raise mileage except when mixed with acetone. However the aromatics also raise octane.

Adding Acetone to Your Tank

When you fill up with fuel, note the number of gallons added, then calculate the right amount of acetone to add. Less is more. Remember all gasoline is different. Some will work better than others in the presence of acetone which is strictly a vaporization tool, rather than a fuel additive that alters combustion. The car computer still thinks it is running straight gasoline. None of your settings are altered. None of your engine parts are affected. Check out ScanGauge for an inexpensive MPG device.

Some stores sell acetone in metal cans of various sizes, which are safe to keep indoors. However, it is difficult to pour from these cans, which have a flat top and short neck from which spillage is inevitable. In any case, while handling acetone, you should be wearing rubber gloves.

One option is to get a small graduated cylinder (available from science supplies store or some pharmacies). The small ones have larger intervals between markings so that it is easier to fill them to the level desired. The narrow cylinder can be held to the neck of the can to catch all drips. Then from the cylinder you can pour neatly into the tank. The small pouring spout suitable for laboratories prevents drips onto the paint.

Being etched with neat lines at each milliliter, these graduated cylinders are also good for measuring precise amounts -- in ounces or milliliters.

Additional Benefits

In addition to increased mileage acetone added to fuel boasts other benefits such as increased power, engine life, and performance. Less unburned fuel going past the rings keeps the rings and engine oil in far better condition.

A tiny bit of acetone in diesel fuel can stop the black smoke when the rack is all the way at full throttle. You will notice that the exhaust soot will be greatly reduced and your truck or car runs smoother.

Acetone can reduce hydrocarbon emissions up to 60 percent. In some older cars, the HC readings with acetone in a 1986 GMC went from 440 PPM to 195, as just one example. Though mileage gains taper off with too much acetone, hydrocarbon emissions are nevertheless greatly reduced. Pure acetone is an extremely clean burning fuel that burns in air with a pretty blue, smokeless flame.

Acetone reduces the formation of water-ice crystals in below-zero weather which can damage the fuel filter. Change that fuel filter every year to protect injectors.

There are no known bad effects and every good reason to use acetone in your fuel. I have never seen a problem with acetone, and I have used ACETONE in gasoline and diesel fuel and in jet fuel (JP-4) for 50 years. I have rigorously tested fuels independently (with burns all over me) and am considered an authority on this important subject.


Cautions

Keep acetone away from painted surfaces, such as the paint on your car under the gas tank opening. Acetone is the key ingredient in paint remover. In addition to paint, fuels, including acetone, gasoline alone can also dissolve asphalt and most plastics.

Never allow skin contact with it. It may damage clothing as well. Don't breathe it. Keep children away from all dangerous chemicals. Read the directions on the container.

Acetone is a highly flammable liquid, as is gasoline. Do not expose it near a flame or spark. Acetone should be stored outside, with proper ventilation, not inside your house. Gasoline and/or acetone will dissolve cheap plastics, so be sure the container you store it in will not deteriorate. Read all the precautions on the labels.

No Issues with the Engine Parts

I have soaked carburetor parts in acetone for months and even years to see if there is any deterioration. Any parts made to run with gasoline will work with acetone just fine. I presently have parts soaking in 1, 2, 5, and 10 % acetone/gasoline mixes as well as just gasoline. That is 20 to 200 times too much just to be sure. The 30R7 rated parts are in perfect condition. All my tests have been run with Texaco gasoline. I tested the gas stations in my area to FIRST find the best gasoline BEFORE putting acetone in the tank. But I have no idea from a pragmatic view what other gasolines do except that when I attempt to use them, my MPG drops like a rock. So for purely monetary reasons, I run the best available gasoline. When my dyno is built this summer, I will test all the gasolines in my area and publish the results on the web. I hear from engineers out West that Chevron gas is very good. I used it and it was fine during trips to California. I attach more credence to engineers who report things of interest to me because of their training and knowledge of testing methods. You may want to look up Science and Testing Methods in my site.

Contrast with Alcohol

In contrast, alcohol has been shown to be corrosive in an engine, yet they put THAT into gasoline. Alcohol in general is anti-mileage. Alcohol is no good in fuels. In Brazil, millions of engines and fuel systems were ruined by alcohol. Yet they are talking of doubling the amount of alcohol in gasoline.

Furthermore, alcohol increases surface tension, producing the opposite effect from acetone. Alcohol in fuel attracts water. This hurts mileage because water acts like a fire extinguisher. Some cars may run badly and even quit due to the incombustible nature of the water-laden fuel. We know of a dozen cars that recently stopped running due to water in the alcohol and gas mixture. In my Neon, it frequently has cut the MPG in half on trips when I take pot luck at the pump.

In below-zero weather, the water and alcohol can form abrasive, icy particles that may damage fuel pumps and clog injectors.

Has Not Been Warmly Received

Questions asked of someone in the petroleum industry regarding ACETONE will often automatically trigger a string of negative reactions and perhaps false assertions. We may have heard them all. The mere mention of this additive represents such a threat to oil profits that you may get fabricated denials against the successful use of acetone in fuels.

The author has never found any valid reason for not using acetone in gasoline or diesel fuel. Plus it takes such a tiny amount to work. No wonder they fear this additive.

Political Action

You might Email this article to your government representative. After sufficient data has been collected, and that data supports the conclusions presented here, ACETONE should be ordered by Federal Law to be present in all fuels. While you're at it, request that vehicles be equipped with a MPG read-out to make it easier for consumers to know what is and is not working to improve their mileage.

If You Want to Do Independent Testing

For those of you who like to see the data yourself, there is a great little device available to check your exact gas mileage and more. See ScanGauge for an instrument that fits any car 1996 or newer. And some 1995 models. It measures your real-time MPG, inlet and coolant temperatures and many more details as you drive. This inexpensive tool should end a lot of debate over what works for mileage and what does not. We use the TRIP function to average the MPG at a steady 50 MPH both ways.

Since the fuel from every gas station is different from the next, the MPG performance will also vary. Then there exist a wide variety of additive choices at the terminals that affect quality. Also other variables in the cars performance such as warm external temperature versus cold external temperature, using the AC or not, headlights or not, incline of drive, etc. Try to eliminate as many of these variable as possible in your comparative testing.

Be consistent where you buy your gasoline because different gasolines vary tremendously. The best gas and the worst gas in your neighborhood will likely have a 30-percent spread in mileage. Same for diesel fuel. In my experience with repeated test results, I found that Texaco, Chevron and Canadian Shell deliver excellent gasoline mileage. Try to keep down the number of variables wherever you gas up by using the same station, same pump, same grade or same octane before testing. This is important.

Incidentally, in almost all cases, the lowest octane is best for mileage. Most modern vehicles do not have high enough compression to justify using high octane fuels. The testing indicates best mileage is usually obtained with 85 or 87 octane gasoline. Too much octane causes a loss of power and economy. BUT too little octane causes the same things plus knocking. Listen carefully to your engine for tell-tale knocks or clicks when you start out from a light. The best mileage points to the correct octane when the engine is properly tuned. See your owners manual.

The ScanGauge enables you to notice differences and then check variations with and without acetone added in various proportions. Roughly 1/20 to 1/10 of one percent. On the dyno I never exceeded 1/4 of a percent. There was no point.

Report Your Findings

PES Network Inc. has created an index page at PESWiki where you can report your findings. PESWiki is a publicly editable website where you can post a summary of your results, or create a full page, with all the details you wish to report, with images and links to video or spreadsheet data.

Other Additives Exist

There are of course other additives that improve mileage (which also have had less than a favorable reception by the petroleum industry). Certain octane improvers for example also aid mileage. We recently proved that Carb Medic from Gunk can raise mileage when 3 oz. are used with 2 oz. of acetone per 10 gallons of gasoline, even in cold weather. Acetone seems to help cars start easier in winter.

Many products claiming to improve mileage are expensive and do not really help much. Others are fakes. For instance, a SMOOTH flow of air into a carburetor or injector is far better for mileage than turbulent air. Turbulence is bad. Yet many people deliberately introduce turbulent air into their engines. There are many silly myths floating around the car industry to fool the average person. Another is that cold intake air improves mileage. NO. Warm air improves mileage.

Test for yourself. Take a mileage check for each and every tank of gas or diesel fuel like we do. Your actual mileage is NOT that of a single tank full but the average of perhaps five tanks. To be accurate, you should not miss any checks. This takes discipline to get reliable results. Someday your car will do it for you with a factory MPG gauge on the dash. But for now, YOU ought to keep tabs on your mileage for all our sakes.

# # #

SOURCES

The above story was adapted with permission from a story reported at:
lubedev.com

Follow-up

From: Louis LaPointe
March 19, 2005

Something that might be added:

In early 2004, a SmartGas reader in New York State filled three bottles with: pure acetone, part acetone/part gasoline and straight gasoline. Into these he placed O-rings, pump diaphragms, plastic fittings, hose parts and other neoprene/n-buna stuff. He duped my experiments from back in the 50s. Months later he told me the pure acetone bottle was slightly darkened and some vinyl parts swelled. Dave had carefully marked all the parts beforehand. He dried the parts to mike them again and noted after six months that the growth was about two-percent to five-percent in the bottles with gasoline, which was well within limits. Almost unnoticeable. He put the stuff back into the respective bottles where it may still be today. Dave has a background in physics and engineering. I suggest testing parts as mentioned above, in 1, 2, 5, and 10 % mixes of gasoline and acetone. This is up to 200 times more concentrated than what we use in real life. No sense being ridiculous.

He believes that everyone should do their own testing and not listen to the prejudiced opinions or words of others. There is way too much misinformation out there.

When using acetone, I often add one of several other mileage additives into my 16 oz. Walgreen's plastic acetone bottle which stays in the trunk so as not to carry a large quantity container in case I get rear-ended. I am building a dyno facility to further test all the mileage additives and get perfect mixture figures to appear on the site this summer, I hope. Meanwhile the ScanGauge is being used daily by numerous persons across the U.S. running acetone and various carefully devised mixes and lubricants. Some oils can improve mileage substantially, notably Torco Oil.

Using the ScanGauge at 50MPH, my best mileage was 48-52 in my Neon a few weeks ago. Then I stopped the acetone to do some reverse testing. The next four tanks of the same Texaco gas showed 42-43, 37-38, 33-34, 30-31. No acetone when each tank was filled at half-full. The drop was about 20 MPG overall. Recent tests at a steady 50 MPH show 61-63 MPG in the Neon. People report OVER 62 MPG in Toyota Prius vehicles with a tiny bit of acetone in the gas. The other person with me each time wrote down the results. Single source reporting is not a good idea.

Clear thinking guys want us to get off the Middle Eastern Oil. It is a national crisis. But to confirm this specific additive takes procedural knowledge, not undisciplined views or flash opinions. That makes engineers the best source of information of what goes on out there. The less controversy the better, if possible.

I finished a science article on the SmartGas.net site--how to go about testing. It concerns induction and the Scientific Method.

Thanks to all, Lou LaPointe

ScanGuage II - Track your automobile statistics with ease. Unit plugs into the diagnostic connector found under-dash on 1996 and newer cars and light trucks.
See also

Fuel Economy > Acetone as a Fuel Additive - project index at PESWiki for reporting data from actual road tests using acetone.
FAQ - What does acetone do to the fuel system components? How much do I add? Will it hurt me? How does it effect performance? (PESWiki)
Lubricity of Acetone in Fuel; Ester's Solution - Acetone's positive results in mileage, idle, emissions, power, come in part from its engine cleaning effect, removing the carbon build-up. Does acetone degrade lubricity, creating long-term wear issues? Data from years of acetone use do not show unusual wear. Esters purported to afford added protection. (PESN; April 13, 2005)
Pure Energy Systems News
This Week in Free Energy™ - Weekly five minute blurb.
Page posted by Sterling D. Allan March 17, 2005
Last updated December 26, 2007

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Old 09-18-2012, 03:10 AM   #35 (permalink)
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This isn't rocket science. To start with, the 2012 4.0L V6 has 108 more horsepower than the 3.0L V6 in the 1992 truck: 261 vs 153 (assuming I got the trims right).

Is it reasonable to expect 108 more horsepower to come with no fuel economy penalty? To actually have better fuel economy?

Feel free to carry on the investigation re: vehicle weight, transmission differences & aerodynamics (frontal area is likely greater).
Thanks for the spec link. I was just about to go look for that.

Vehicles generally don't operate at their peak horsepower. For a given total load on the engines, at the same speed, both have to produce close to the same horsepower (internal work will match external work -- load x speed = horsepower, in the right units). The same horsepower expended should consume close to the same fuel quantity.

Where you get into differences is that the higher horsepower engine has the capability to either pull a much heavier load at the same speed, or pull the same load at a much higher speed, in which case the higher horsepower engine will of course consume more fuel. For running about in town lightly loaded, the larger engine should up-shift much quicker than the smaller engine. Whether it really does or not would be something to test, though I no longer have the '92 to compare directly.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:23 AM   #36 (permalink)
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correct me if im wrong, dont the new cpu's that run the cars modify on the fly and learn your driving habits . also do you have a realtime fuel readout on the dash, if not a scangauge will help .It did for me now Im getting +3-4mpg with out thinking about it more if I work at it. And welcome to ecomodder. by the way It seams all the older cars and trucks got better mpg. lighter smaller engines fewer bell and whistles.
Yes - the vehicle does have a real time fuel usage on the dash, and it seems to be pretty accurate.

I think our efficiency problems are related to conflicting requirements the EPA issues on faulty assumptions about the effect of automotive emissions on the environment. Simple models are adopted and regulations issued without any testing, verification, or pilot proof-of-concept programs.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:30 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I read somewhere that the powers that be decided to lower NOX and so they run more fuel or a rich mixture . if true, thats some of the extra fuel.
I can believe that. Much of the solution to efficiency may lay in simply reprogramming the computer. I think that is not so easy for us to accomplish, and perhaps illegal for the manufacturer to do.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:45 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:49 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Snow White and the 6.2 Dwarfs - '11 Chevrolet Corvette LT2
Last 3: 26.46 mpg (US)

Silver Flea - '05 Honda Insight
90 day: 58.96 mpg (US)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
Yes - the vehicle does have a real time fuel usage on the dash, and it seems to be pretty accurate.

I think our efficiency problems are related to conflicting requirements the EPA issues on faulty assumptions about the effect of automotive emissions on the environment. Simple models are adopted and regulations issued without any testing, verification, or pilot proof-of-concept programs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
I can believe that. Much of the solution to efficiency may lay in simply reprogramming the computer. I think that is not so easy for us to accomplish, and perhaps illegal for the manufacturer to do.
One can quote multiple people in one post by using the multiple quote button with the post button.

Bigger capacity engine wastes more fuel idling, and moving slowly. Also, reving up. from personal experience, that is.

My engine is smaller, but my mileage sucks until I get going. I can get 40 mpg because I can roll in 6th gear from 25 mph and up, but if I stop, my mileage just plummits. Accelerating, though, I get terrible fuel economy. In the city I can get 30+ from shifting at 1200 rpms, to 650 rpms, and never stopping.

If I just accelerate, then the fuel consumption is terrible. Hence why one can get a hybrid and get great mileage without altering driving style. Electric motor does start up, and then fuel motor does higher speeds, recharging, so on. And a smaller engine pulling is more efficient in down time.

If you do NOT want to change your driving style, then instrumentation showing true rpm and real life mpg/fuel use will help as much as you let it (instead of the factory stuff which doesn't compare), aero mods will help- visible or not, and although there is no well tested info here, I continue to see claims of mpg gains by cold air induction. Now that is very subjective, but the Mustang forum I have been visiting has a lot of people who strictly want performance. An after thought was increased mpg, per tank. Most people say 2mpg, a couple said only one. So, now this isn't very technical, if you don't want to change your driving style, that might also give you a boost, and then you have the performance option, too.
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Best Tanks:
Mustang - 54.83 mpg (US) at the Green Grand Prix
Insight - 82.91966 mpg (US) over 818.5 miles.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:26 AM   #40 (permalink)
ron
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: slo county ca.
Posts: 277

double eagles - '99 Dodge ram slt
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 24
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
wow it almost sounds to good to be true . how can 3oz in 10 gal increase mpg so much (whats that ratio) I guess the proof is in the testing GOOD LUCK . if it works im on board

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