It's all over but for the sweating?

[suspectnumber961]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





Too many BIG PEOPLE will eventually cause the earth to wobble and it's poles to shift....resulting in the oceans sloshing up onto the land. So when you see BIG FISH flopping around on the ground...you'll know the end is near.

[NeilBlanchard]

The climate is still warming; and we humans burning too much fossil fuels is causing it.

[user removed]

Your charts start at the end of the mini ice age. Remember the Irish potato famine, when it was cold enough to kill the potatos which grow underground. Also right after the Krakatoa volcanic eruption and the earlier Tambora eruption which reduced globall temperatures by an average of 2 degrees and caused summer temps in South Carolina to fall below freezing (32 degrees F) in 1814-1815 (the year without summer).

Just an example of how cherry picking information can slew the information used to draw a conclusion when the conclusion is already the driving force behind the data presentation.

When you go back thousands of years you have eliminated human influence. Start at the lowest point in the mini ice age if you want when much of Europe was starving to death, or be truly scientific and look back several thousand years and you see spikes of temperatures that are as bad as today.

I see the effects of the current warming trend and sea level rise in the last 100 years, first hand, but there still remains evidence of this being a repeat of temperatures that occured long before human influence became a factor.

Real scientific investigations do not draw conclusions based on a microscopic data evaluation. Long ago the atmosphere was 35% oxygen. What caused that percentage to drop by almost 50% compared to today. It was not human activity.

As suspect stated in his original post, "it's all over but the sweating", which implies a conclusion. In my lifetime I have seen the exact opposite "conclusion", hence my scepticism about the current "conclusion", which can be rationally rebuked with little effort.

Like Aragonis, I am finished with this thread. I have a solution for the "conclusion" the global warming advocates continue to support, but see little real effort to incorporate my solution into the transportation environment. I have done something personally, at considerable cost in time and financial resources. If warming is in fact a trend with danger to future generations, then help me to promote my solution. Unending debate and claims of fact based on cherry picked evidence smack of an agenda which demands financial support for those who will always claim what is "fact" will provide them with financial support.

While they waste the resources and energy to accomplish their goal, it just smacks of another "the sky is falling" scare tactic while real solutions, like mine, are not even given a decent amount of research and support. In the meantime the globe keeps warming and your "solutions" require major economic hardship on countries that will never support such a proposition.

When you have made a similar effort in thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars to actually DO SOMETHING to resolve the problem (assuming it exists as you do) then come on back and we can discuss OUR solutions.

regards
Mech

[NeilBlanchard]

The charts also show the entire period of the Industrial Revolution. What matters most is the present climate changes.

Ducking out of the conversation does not negate the facts. Physics will not be denied, and the climate has the last word.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Remember the Irish potato famine, when it was cold enough to kill the potatos which grow underground.

Just plain wrong. The Irish Potato Famine was caused by a disease Phytophthora infestans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which in fact requires fairly warm temperatures (and humidity) to spread.

PS: And in case you've never grown potatos, or seen them growing, the plant part does grow above ground. (And is poisonous.) It's quite tender, and will be killed by a sharp frost, but on the other hand it doesn't grow well in high temperatures. For me the aboveground plant usually dies off in August.

The potatos we eat are enlarged roots, or tubers. These can survive cold winters underground. Most gardeners will have noticed "volunteer" potato plants coming up where last year's crop grew. (It's advisable not to plant potatos in the same spot every year, as this can lead to buildup of soil diseases.)

[freebeard]

NeilBlanchard -- Thanks for adding the links. I've watched the first one. The stresses from the rising and falling tides, buttressing, the threshold behavior of calving: Fascinating stuff.

[Why can't they have the presenter picture-in-picture and the PowerPoint presentation persistent at full screen?]

Do you know they figured out the cause of the 'Bloop' sound? Icebergs grounding on seamounts.

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Like Aragonis, I am finished with this thread. I have a solution for the "conclusion" the global warming advocates continue to support, but see little real effort to incorporate my solution into the transportation environment. I have done something personally, at considerable cost in time and financial resources. If warming is in fact a trend with danger to future generations, then help me to promote my solution.

If your still around, could you remind us what that solution is?

[Arragonis]

I went away as "Northern Britain" returned to work this week.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Debunking the "no warming in 16 years" stuff...

You seem to have a bug in your browser as you are using the "Skeptical Science" website as a source

If this is intended you need maybe to look at their background. For example they are/were involved with the "Gergis" paper which suggested loads of warming in Australia - it even passed peer review. However in response to a data request she said:

This list allows any researcher who wants to access non publically available records to follow the appropriate protocol of contacting the original authors to obtain the necessary permission to use the record, take the time needed to process the data into a format suitable for data analysis etc, just as we have done. This is commonly referred to as ‘research’. We will not be entertaining any further correspondence on the matter.

Nice lady.

But despite all that "peer review" - you know science being checked and so on - it has been "put on hold" due to an error with their sums. Or maybe withdrawn.

Due to errors discovered in this paper during the publication process,

it was withdrawn by the authors prior to being published in final form. A new version of this manuscript has been submitted and is under review.

The new version seems to have, er, not made it anywhere - yet.

Oh and the "Stephan Lewandowsky" paper which seems to be have been published (despite being crap in both idea and again perhaps their sums) but nobody really knows where. It might be an Australian university publication they refer to - oh hang on...

Apart from this, the site founder is a cartoonist and is funded by an Australian university - hang on again, have I typed that phrase before ? I'm seeing a pattern - maybe.

Oz tax dollars at work At least their politicians are honest - no wait...

Anyway debunking the debunking.

Go and argue with the BBC and the UK Met Office - they now admit the no warming / slow warming event.

Bottom line - they think it will be a pause but they aren't sure, but like you they think it will restart sometime and humans are the cause. A lot of "extreme" people on the skeptic side say it has stopped - end of story, others say no it is a pause and it will continue. I say more research and kudos to the Met Office (UK) for at least admitting it and starting to deal with it, and minus a load of points to skeptic websites that didn't notice the use of a new model.

Hang on - New Model - thats "More Science" like I'm advocating.

Am I alone and barking at the moon here ? - more science = good, consensus = crap, like that Galileo persecution by an ignorant church "issue" a few hundred years ago. There are a few other theories which fight the "consensus" too.

But without detailed evidence and a force sufficient to drive the movement, the theory was not generally accepted: the Earth might have a solid crust and mantle and a liquid core, but there seemed to be no way that portions of the crust could move around. Distinguished scientists, such as Harold Jeffreys and Charles Schuchert, were outspoken critics of continental drift.

Despite much opposition, the view of continental drift gained support and a lively debate started between "drifters" or "mobilists" (proponents of the theory) and "fixists" (opponents).

Note the name calling and labelling there - did that make it better ? Did it really make it better ?

However UK Met Office, minus a few thousand PR points for doing it on Christmas Eve (let's try and bury bad, no sorry, difficult news) and then having to explain themselves repeatedly at my (as a UK taxpayer) expense - and badly goofing it up. No really badly.

No honest my son at 11 could tell a joke about farting and it would be better.

One of their scientists did it better, maybe they should get rid of the PR people.

In fact please do - I would like less tax please.

And Met Office - minus a few more thousand more PR points for suggesting rainfall in the UK in 2012 was "extreme" when they also forecast a drought in 2012 until May, oh and actually 2012 is not unusual as far as anyone can tell.



Again I want to point out I'm not having a "free swing" at anyone here - everyone is posting for the best of intentions as they see them, I have no problem with that at all.

Sources are important - read them all - from RealClimate and DesmogBlog to Watts and Bishop Hill. Take them all with a large drum of salt and be prepared to do your own digging and research to get a full picture.

I'm sure a few people will mark this as disinformation or indeed spreading doubt - no, I want people to understand as much as possible.

Also as I tapped earlier - if someone said no warming and humans are not involved, I would disagree with them too. See my previous post about all of that.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The charts also show the entire period of the Industrial Revolution.

I have highlighted your problem above. Fix that part. Didn't we discuss the selective use of start and end dates before, I seem to recall we both agreed this was "cherry picking" ? The Industrial Revolution happens to coincide with the (theoritcal based on instruments) end of the LIA. Bummer but true, as far as science knows.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

What matters most is the present climate changes.

Nope - Assuming we have a decent enough handle on what is happening now - debateable, then the key problem is that we don't have reliable records prior to 1750 - so we have absolutely no idea if anything we are experiencing now in terms of absolute temps or trends is unusual.

There is evidence that shows the MWP was less warm than some think it might have been, there is some evidence that it was local to Northern Europe and not a global thing and evidence that both of those things are not correct. (I can do links but there are quite a few).

Both are estimates based on research.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Ducking out of the conversation does not negate the facts.

Maybe people get fed up with the language - "facts" versus "theory".

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Physics will not be denied, and the climate has the last word.

Nice introduction of the "denier" idea there - well I tried to keep it civil I suppose.

Anyway it's a bit more complicated than that. I'd like science to find out more. Are you denying science can help here ?

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Just plain wrong. The Irish Potato Famine was caused by a disease Phytophthora infestans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which in fact requires fairly warm temperatures (and humidity) to spread.

Agreed.

In relation to climate cooling there is a recorded drop in food production at the start of the LIA when it got cooller - it was very severe here in the UK. People died, the population shrank. It was not good.

Compared to when it was warmer when people lived longer, ate better and built cathedrals to give thanks to god for it all.

[NeilBlanchard]

Warming continues even through the past sixteen years. So it is total bunk otherwise.

[radioranger]

nobody knows how to stop China and India, this leading by example stuff doesnt work, perhaps if we got off our addiction to their slave labor all would be well. course you couldnt pay union wages unless prices skyrocket on everything but maybe we dont need Ipads, etc, really that bad, funny how that never comes up in the media. send every one back fifty years, remember the fifties when you were happy with a comic book,