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Old 06-21-2019, 06:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Needs don't always align with choice.
Rarely do needs align with choice. Most of us "need" to not die, or to not have our bodies wear out over time. That's entirely beyond our choice.

Ok, some needs are more immediate, like breathing oxygen or drinking water. We're the principle actor responsible for securing those needs. Others have a role, but we're the most invested.

My point though is that the individual is responsible for defining need, and the individual is responsible for seeing that those needs are met. Most would agree that having needs minimally met is still better than failing to meet needs, or to meet them at even lower levels.

Everyone's got to work to meet their needs. Even those that have a large inheritance must work to manage it, because that's no easy task.

Either everyone who voluntarily exchanges their time for money is exploited, or nobody is. I'm fine defining it either way (BTW, everyone being exploited is the same as nobody being exploited, just as everyone winning is the same as nobody winning), but it must be consistent; the alternative is arbitrary.

I lived in the back of a Subaru for nearly 2 years. If someone says my needs were not being met, I'd tell them "that's just, like, their opinion, man". Likewise, if I lived in a mansion and someone said it's too extravagant... well I'd probably agree with them, but that too is just, like, their opinion, man.

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Old 06-21-2019, 08:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't use to eat honey. I confess I'm not well aware of how much honey production harm bees. Not sure if they harvest all or most honey up to let bees dies of hungry. I know the producer have no interest in kill much bees, since the bees are needed to produce more honey. And sicentists says that today bees population are in danger, and all or most of the food depends of bees to polinization. We can't survive without the bees.

Anyway bees are the society dream of feminist universe, since almost all male bees die trying to win the chance of copulate with the queen bee.

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How do you feel about honey? I hear it's a point of contention.

Needs don't always align with choice.

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Old 06-21-2019, 08:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Hamburguers... You have the box with forzen hamburger in supermarket, sold with relative low price, and you have the high quality burger of special burger houses, made with better meat with no or few artificial things.

Supermarket burgers have fake meat since they took many pieces that are quite nerves (white fibrous thing on muscle) cartilage, fat, things a good chef would take away but the industry want to cash over, and so industry adds artificial flavors to it get the taste of the red meat portion, red muscle portion. They use the lowest quality meat for burgers, with all bad parts, and also the bad parts removed from other pieces of meat like from better meat pieces for products of higher value. So, to fool consumers they developed fake flavors and fake scent to cover such things.

I saw reviews and some people told the second generation burgers (impossible foods and Beyound Meat) come very close to supermarket burgers, specially Impossible Foods last version. But for high end burger houses...

Impossible Food's Imposssible Burger have a vegetable hemoglobin, while Beyound Meat's Beyound Burger have no such thing. Impossible Burguer now it's made with soy protein, while the earlier version used potato protein and wheat protein. Soy protein it's much less expensive than meat, but the vegetable hemoglobin it's still somewhat costly, I guess.

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I haven't kept up with it, but pretty exciting! I'd pay a few bucks more as long as it doesn't have any weird in it like the latest fake meat contenders.

Still need to try one of those burgers where mushroom is mixed into the meat, has anyone here had one?

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Old 06-22-2019, 01:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
I confess I'm not well aware of how much honey production harm bees.
I mention it because I saw some discussion about it. Bees only live for a week and they live to make honey. Smoke is an anesthetic to them, they don't even miss the honey, they just make more. We just let them be all they can be.

Also, cows like being milked.
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Old 06-22-2019, 02:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I confess I'm not well aware of how much honey production harm bees. Not sure if they harvest all or most honey up to let bees dies of hungry.
The bees are fed sugar water to replace the honey they would normally consume.

Honey is their way to preserve energy for future consumption, but it's not needed because humans provide their energy as needed.

I'm always amazed that we rely so heavily on animals to produce things that are useful to us. I'd have thought we could artificially create the chemistry and mechanical processing required to make synthetic honey, for instance. Or how about spinning silk?
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You at dinner with your wife :

_Honey, I have a new dish today specially for you, sandwiches of fried lengua.

_Are you crazy??? Do you believe I'm going to eat something that comes out from cow's mouth??? Bring me some eggs!





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Heck, I'm not entirely comfortable eating lengua yet, and would be uncomfortable eating cuy if it still largely resembled the guinea pig.

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Old 06-22-2019, 10:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Cows are killed when they can no longer reproduce or no longer produce milk. Even chicken used to produce eggs are killed when they no longer can produce eggs.

Cows was the first "vaccine", since a type of bovine smallpox was passed from cows to humans, but in humans it only gave some harmless lesion on hands, but it gave imunization against the human smallpox that was lethal.

Do you know about the African Bees invasion on USA?
Well, you can blame Brazil for that, since there was no african bees on American Continent until a brazilian university start a project to try to breed different bees varieties to increase honey production, many decades ago, and they brought from Africa some samples of african bees. They alowed, by accident, one queen bee to scape and they started to reproduce and migrate from South America, Central America until reach North America USA.

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Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I mention it because I saw some discussion about it. Bees only live for a week and they live to make honey. Smoke is an anesthetic to them, they don't even miss the honey, they just make more. We just let them be all they can be.

Also, cows like being milked.

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Old 06-22-2019, 10:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Interesting... Maybe there are no moral objection for vegans to eat honey. Unless there is something else we don't know. Some people don't eat arguing that it's a product originated from animals.
But the arguments against animalmproducts, besides the morals, are about toxins, like from meat, and other compounds that may be less health than products from vegetables. But I don't think honey have toxins or more toxins the beans and other grains. Indeed may be better than brown sugar.

Edited : I did a research and found many bees are killed by the smoke and during centrifugation of honeycombs.
That's why many vegans don't eat honey.

Spider webb fibers are stronger than kevilar. You may don't notice cause you can broke it easily, but it's just because you broke ultra fine microscopic fibers. Scientists are tring to replicate in laboratory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The bees are fed sugar water to replace the honey they would normally consume.

Honey is their way to preserve energy for future consumption, but it's not needed because humans provide their energy as needed.

I'm always amazed that we rely so heavily on animals to produce things that are useful to us. I'd have thought we could artificially create the chemistry and mechanical processing required to make synthetic honey, for instance. Or how about spinning silk?

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Old 06-22-2019, 12:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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No wonder chickens can't fly, look at those lungs. They have to be short-winded.

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