Looking for help building a Gas Vapor system

[racprops]

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott

Well, when good measurements conflict with the model, it's good to re-evaluate the model. Maybe the ECU has other tricks to accommodate warmer/cooler air?

I lean toward why all cars now get cold air intakes...it makes more power and thus more MPG...

And they are tuned for it.

Rich

[racprops]

I have tried a couple of cold vapor systems, but controlling them were a problem...

I fear the tight valve may have defeated the very operation of the system...causing vapor to condense.

I may try again soon.



Rich

[elhigh]

In order to make more power, you have to burn more fuel. Period. The end. Heat = power, to make more heat requires more fuel. A cold air intake does that by allowing a denser charge - that is to say, MORE in terms of raw mass - of air into the cylinder.

I think the anemometer on your hood, just upstream of the windshield, isn't the best place for it. On the roof of the car, about 2/3 the way back, would probably be as true an airspeed indicator as you're going to get.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by elhigh

In order to make more power, you have to burn more fuel. Period. The end. Heat = power, to make more heat requires more fuel. A cold air intake does that by allowing a denser charge - that is to say, MORE in terms of raw mass - of air into the cylinder.

That makes total sense...but I still think you can get more MPG IF your able to run more powerful fuel. AND my understanding is pure GASOLINE VAPOR is such a fuel.

I think the anemometer on your hood, just upstream of the windshield, isn't the best place for it. On the roof of the car, about 2/3 the way back, would probably be as true an airspeed indicator as you're going to get.

Anemometer????

Are you talking about my weather station?? I was only going to use that standing still to show what weather was like on great road test to answer the questions as to was there any wind etc.

Rich

[oil pan 4]

The only fuel that burns notably hotter than all your typical fuels is nitromethane.
Alcohol, propane, gasoline, diesel, kerosene all burn with temperatures with in about 10% of each other.
Nitromethane is the only one that is dramatically higher.

[racprops]

Here is an important part of this talk. Gasoline BURNS…

This take time, so much time the ICE has to start this burning up to 40 degrees BEFORE top dead center just to get the highest pressure of this burning fuel at the power stroke.

AND this burning is NOT completed during the power stroke and it keeps burning all the way out of the exhaust manifold.

Gasoline VAPOR does not burn it explodes.

So its power stroke is short and powerful.

So if it is 100% vapor and explodes just after TDC 30% of the fuel is said to be needed as it makes as much power as 100% of normal fuel makes.

Due to this Exploding fuel something like 95% is burned in a very short and powerful explosion and as there is no lingering burning of the left over fuel again it is reported the engine will run a lot cooler.

The short powerful explosion produces as much or more USABLE power in the engine with much less fuel needed.

IN Fact it is said this explosion can be a little harsh on the engine and it is a good idea to add a little water to smooth this out…my plans call for a small amount to be added to the hot vapor as a mix and to help cool the vapor before it is fed to the engine.

It is well know that it takes high heat to convert gas TO vapor and that it has to be a lot colder to convert vapor back to Liquid, so I plan of cooling my super-hot vapor back down right after the vapor conversion and making water vapor to add to the engine at the same time.

Rich

[teoman]

Sounds plausible, but if it were really %30 as you state the my vapor burning engine (ml350 3.7L converted to lpg, runs on heated lpg vapor) would get much much better mpg.

So there is probably more to it.

So it could be an engine tuning issue that i do not see the mpg increase. But thenagain cars made specifically for lpg do not exhibit such remarkable mpg improvements either so there must be more to it.

Don't let me discourage you. You can get some mpg gains. If not you will end up with a system that can conver used motor oil and waste vegetable oil to fuel on the fly...

[racprops]

From what I have read is IS the fuel, vaporized gasoline is suppose to be a lot more powerful than almost all other fuels.

30% is the ideal but even 40/50% less fuel would nearly triple or at lease double MPG.

On my Ford/Mercury that could mean: 75 MPG to 60 MPG.

On my van it could mean 32 MPG....

It is the only WONDER MPG improvement I can see having ANY chance of producing great MPG.

I do not expect 100 or 200 MPG.

AND it is the only system that I can find that could be added or retro fitted to any gasoline burning car within reasonable costs a minor changes, and you can keep your factory stock FI and all ITS smog junk intact and thus not break any laws. (I believe any way..)

Rich

Originally Posted by teoman

Sounds plausible, but if it were really %30 as you state the my vapor burning engine (ml350 3.7L converted to lpg, runs on heated lpg vapor) would get much much better mpg.

So there is probably more to it.

So it could be an engine tuning issue that i do not see the mpg increase. But thenagain cars made specifically for lpg do not exhibit such remarkable mpg improvements either so there must be more to it.

Don't let me discourage you. You can get some mpg gains. If not you will end up with a system that can conver used motor oil and waste vegetable oil to fuel on the fly...

[Hersbird]

Gasoline liquid never burns, only vapor ever burns. You don't start it 30 degrees early unless you are running at high RPMS and no matter what fuel you use the space that explosion happens in is tiny and starts from the spark plug out. That explosion doesn't move the piston in and of itself, but the heat of that explosion causes the air to expand and that moves the piston. That heat then is nothing but waste, vapor carb, fuel injection, direct injection, whatever. Your only possible argument would be how much fuel is ignited later and I still say that is not a significant portion, the only portion is designed into the rich mixture from the beginning to make the catalytic converter work. That is not a flaw of fuel injection design but in rules on emissions. Ditch the cat, lean it out and you get any potential gains you get from a hot vapor system. All you are doing with the vapor system is reducing power greatly and bypassing emissions.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Gasoline liquid never burns, only vapor ever burns. You don't start it 30 degrees early unless you are running at high RPMS and no matter what fuel you use the space that explosion happens in is tiny and starts from the spark plug out.

There your wrong, I have run over a dozen test runs MONITORING all the engines functions on a GOOD scanner, and have seen timing even at 2000 RPMS running in the 30 degrees + on almost all cars.


That explosion doesn't move the piston in and of itself, but the heat of that explosion causes the air to expand and that moves the piston. That heat then is nothing but waste, vapor carb, fuel injection, direct injection, whatever. Your only possible argument would be how much fuel is ignited later and I still say that is not a significant portion, the only portion is designed into the rich mixture from the beginning to make the catalytic converter work. That is not a flaw of fuel injection design but in rules on emissions. Ditch the cat, lean it out and you get any potential gains you get from a hot vapor system. All you are doing with the vapor system is reducing power greatly and bypassing emissions.

Well Until I get one built and test it I cannot say what will happen.

But the science seems to back up the idea.

I HAVE talked with a number of people whom claim they have gotten a nice improvement running a cold vapor system...that being only a booster system...

Rich